Beginning Avic avic care

[Crone Returns]

Some of the most endangered tarantulas in the world are Poecilotheria. Because of the huge population in India, most of the native trees have been cut down for lumber and firewood. It's not illegal for Indians to kill Poecs, just illegal for us to take them out of the country so we can bred them in captivity. What logic! Several years ago hundreds of P hanumavillasumica were killed when a forest was cut down. No one bothered to save or relocate them. Yeah, they're protected in the wild.

I knew an orchid collector in Tampa, who made an arrangement with the Belize and US governments for him to collect and export orchids from areas that were being cleared. The orchids would otherwise die. He brought them legally into US Customs and legally sold them to collectors. Why isn't this the norm all over the world? Rescue or relocate? Stop the waste and slaughter. Instead, countless acres are destroyed every year, and the politicians boast that they've 'protected' that area. What hypocrisy! Dead plants and animals are dead plants and animals. Locals doing the destruction makes it palatable?

You are right. The problem is people don't like spiders. (and plants are just plants). I'm being facetious. I'm a recovering spider murderer and that fear was pounded in me by parents. All spiders were considered dangerous, deadly.
With Pokies, with their potent venom, they have probably killed children in India. Hence the slaughter. Yes, people don't think that those spiders help their environment. Western people 1st World people are only just believing that. How can we expect 3rd World people living close to the bone to believe all life is sacred. Theoretically at least

 

[Chris LXXIX]

With Pokies, with their potent venom, they have probably killed children in India. Hence the slaughter.

While, no doubts, a 'Pokie' bite on a sensible part (neck, head etc) will lead an healthy adult to bad news (so go figure a children) IMO that's not what i think. There's people who lived 80 years in India and never saw a 'Pokie'.
My neighbour, for instance.

Poec54 is right. One reason is, T's doesn't move cash nor they have the appeal effect (and that's incredible, only looking at such colors) for the mass of average people like other animals.

Tree/enviroment destruction, sadly yes. In this sense the world of today isn't different from a Lamborghini Countach at full speed without brakes.

 

[cold blood]

In this sense the world of today isn't different from a Lamborghini Countach at full speed without brakes.

Supercar flashback anyone?

What year is it?? Did I go back in time? Half the people on this forum weren't alive during that car's production.

Leave to an Italian

 

[Crone Returns]

While, no doubts, a 'Pokie' bite on a sensible part (neck, head etc) will lead an healthy adult to bad news (so go figure a children) IMO that's not what i think. There's people who lived 80 years in India and never saw a 'Pokie'.
My neighbour, for instance.

Poec54 is right. One reason is, T's doesn't move cash nor they have the appeal effect (and that's incredible, only looking at such colors) for the mass of average people like other animals.

Tree/enviroment destruction, sadly yes. In this sense the world of today isn't different from a Lamborghini Countach at full speed without brakes.

Unfortunately you guys are probably correct. "Money talks..." the creatures and planet dies and so does humanity's soul
I do understand because I can tell you love your Ts. I understand, too because I've only had mine since the last.week in dec. and I love her.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Supercar flashback anyone?

What year is it?? Did I go back in time? Half the people on this forum weren't alive during that car's production.

Leave to an Italian

We made the best cars back then my man

 

[Poec54]

There are time when taking tarantulas from the wild is overdone. I don't know why G roseas were allowed to be collected in large numbers for decades. It's a very harsh environment so there's not a lot of people living there, the spiders grow slow and rebounding could take centuries. Why did our 'concerned' government allow importation of so many of these spiders?

Another one that was over-collected was B smithi in the 1970's & '80's. But since politicians tell couldn't smithi apart from other Brachypelma species, they stopped export of the whole genus. The wild smithi population can rebound faster than roseas.

Why don't governments allow the rescue & relocation of plants and animals in areas being cleared? There are volunteers that will relocate as many as possible, and should be able to bring some from that area into captivity, especially for captive breeding programs.

The Brits have a true passion for Poecilotheria, partly because India used to be a colony of theirs. P regalis is the official symbol of the British Tarantula Society. The BTS has tried to work with the Indian government to study and protect this genus, including relocation in areas being developed. But when the Indian found out that a handful of the newly described hanumavilasumica had been 'smuggled' out of the country by someone and were being bred in captivity, they called off the joint venture. This was ridiculous, especially when a few years later they allowed a forest to be cut down where there were hundreds of hanuma's living. The deaths of those were acceptable, but taking a handful for a responsible captive breeding program was an outrage. In the bureaucratic mind, it makes perfect sense. They're not truly trying to save animals; they're following rules and laws regardless of whether they do more harm than good. As long as they've done their job, they're happy. The fact that the animals were wiped out by locals doesn't matter to them. They followed the rules!

There is no reason to avoid buying w/c spiders. Who knows what their survival chances are in the wild with human populations at record , and growing. No one but tarantula hobbyists care. No zoo or wildlife organization is doing anything about our animals. They're spread thin trying to save the few that the public finds appealing. The funding, manpower, and interest isn't there for tarantulas.

Some well-intended but naïve people say; 'Don't buy tarantulas from pet stores. Let them die and they'll stop carrying them.' That's a childlike innocence that has no basis in reality. Pets stores have been carrying w/c tarantulas since the 1960's, and that theory has yet to put a dent in it. What those people fail to understand is that w/c tarantulas are cheap (several dollars at wholesale), and they bring curious people into stores to look at them. Most of those people won't buy a tarantula, but while there, they'll get something for their cat or dog. That pays for hundreds of dead tarantulas. It's worth it for the pet store.

Then look at it from the spider's perspective. It didn't want to get caught, but now that it has, it still wants to live. Is it fair to the spider to let it die as an example? Because it will be replaced, whether it's sold or dies doesn't matter. It's there to bring in foot traffic to sell other products in the store. How would you feel if you were in a hospital and the doctors and nurses were protesting some new medical law, and were letting patients die to prove a point? Would you think 'Sure, let me die for the cause!' Or would you say 'What the hell is going on? I didn't want to get in the middle of this. I want to live!'

 

[EulersK]

Some well-intended but naïve people say; 'Don't buy tarantulas from pet stores. Let them die and they'llstop carrying them.' That's a childlike innocence that has no basis in reality. Pets stores have been carrying w/c tarantulas since the 1960's, and that theory has yet to put a dent in it. What those people fail to understand is that w/c tarantulas are cheap (several dollars at wholesale), and they bring curious people into stores to look at them. Most of those people won't buy a tarantula, but while there, they'll get something for their cat or dog. That pays for hundreds of dead tarantulas. It's worth it for the pet store.

I'd like to bring a point here. While I completely agree with the point of the tarantulas being a traffic-producing oddity, there is still no reason to support those pet trades. Those interested in buying a T can get one from reputable breeders/dealers, which then actually supports the hobby. I've brought up several times in the past that the likes of Petco/Petsmart are not going anywhere. They're like Walmart; hate them all you want, but they're pretty solid. They can afford the loss on a tarantula every couple of months. I don't boycott large pet stores so they'll stop carrying tarantulas. I boycott them for the same reason I boycott puppy stores that use puppy mills; there are better options, and morally I believe it to be wrong.

All of that being said, I still advocate for the boycott of large pet stores in regards to buying tarantulas, but not for the goal of them not carrying tarantulas any longer.

 

[Poec54]

I'd like to bring a point here. While I completely agree with the point of the tarantulas being a traffic-producing oddity, there is still no reason to support those pet trades. Those interested in buying a T can get one from reputable breeders/dealers, which then actually supports the hobby.

The pet stores will just replace what dies, boycotts are symbolic but absolutely pointless. Why not give the spider a good home? If it dies in the store, and the next one, and the next one for the next 30 years, you feel good about it and that you've accomplished something? Do the spiders feel the same way about it?

Some spider dealers sell w/c's, some sell slings from gravid wild caught females. Most of the species we have trace back to parents smuggled into Europe. Where do you draw the line? Nothing's clean, no one's innocent. If you care about spiders you have empathy and can see beyond useless boycotts. The spiders didn't ask to be born, or captured, but here they are. We need to face up to reality and help them, and educate people on how to care for them.

 

[EulersK]

Some spider dealers sell w/c's, some sell slings from gravid wild caught females. Most of the species we have trace back to parents smuggled into Europe. Where do you draw the line? Nothing's clean, no one's innocent. If you care about spiders you have empathy and can see beyond useless boycotts. The spiders didn't ask to be born, or captured, but here they are. We need to face up to reality and help them, and educate people on how to care for them.

I'm not nearly as noble as what you might believe. I believe I'm much more realistic than many in this hobby. At the end of the day, these are bugs. We preach to every new hobbyist that these creatures completely lack higher cognitive ability - they're instinct driven animals. I don't have the same knee jerk reaction to protect them as I would, say, a mammal. Mammals can suffer and feel pain, tarantulas can't. My boycott of large pet stores is a selfish one. I want to buy a spider that is healthy, has been kept well, and is better sustaining the hobby. Not to mention the price and selection that breeders/dealers offer. I know for a fact that several of my T's are WC, and I really don't care about that. If anything, I'm alright with it, as their survival rates in captivity dwarf that of wild specimens.

Almost without exception, tarantulas kept by pet stores (i.e. Petco/Petsmart) are in very poor health. If I can buy a spider for less money that is actually healthier, why wouldn't I?

I'm sure this post makes me seem very cold, as if I shouldn't be caring for these creatures. Be assured that I do indeed care for these animals. My electric bill during the winter speaks for that! I just certainly do not hold them to the same standards as I do, say, my dog.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

The pet stores will just replace what dies, boycotts are symbolic but absolutely pointless.

Sadly but true. I'm happy to have "lived" the 'Golden Age' of Arachnids here in Italy in the '90, and that no one of those 'Pet Shops' owned/sold those. Actually they never sold one, single, venomous, to be fair.

Only private breeders/keepers shop had those.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

My electric bill during the winter speaks for that!

lol, i'm with you my man. Jesus Christ, i'm with you

 

[Crone Returns]

I'd like to bring a point here. While I completely agree with the point of the tarantulas being a traffic-producing oddity, there is still no reason to support those pet trades. Those interested in buying a T can get one from reputable breeders/dealers, which then actually supports the hobby. I've brought up several times in the past that the likes of Petco/Petsmart are not going anywhere. They're like Walmart; hate them all you want, but they're pretty solid. They can afford the loss on a tarantula every couple of months. I don't boycott large pet stores so they'll stop carrying tarantulas. I boycott them for the same reason I boycott puppy stores that use puppy mills; there are better options, and morally I believe it to be wrong.

All of that being said, I still advocate for the boycott of large pet stores in regards to buying tarantulas, but not for the goal of them not carrying tarantulas any longer.

Hi
Some people don't have a credit card therefore no paypal. All the breeders/dealers I've found will do money orders or electronic checks so have to buy from pet stores.

 

[Crone Returns]

Hi
Some people don't have a credit card therefore no paypal. All the breeders/dealers I've found will do money orders or electronic checks so have to buy from pet stores.

Correction. They WON'T do mo or elec check

 

[EulersK]

Hi
Some people don't have a credit card therefore no paypal. All the breeders/dealers I've found will do money orders or electronic checks so have to buy from pet stores.

You're able to buy PayPal cards at most Targets, Walmarts, etc.

EDIT: Also, if you can do electronic checks, then that means you have a bank account. Your debit card can be run as a credit card online.

 

[Crone Returns]

You're able to buy PayPal cards at most Targets, Walmarts, etc.

EDIT: Also, if you can do electronic checks, then that means you have a bank account. Your debit card can be run as a credit card online.

Yes. Once again I'm shown I'm from the planet Dweeb. I'll grab the Paypal. Thanks.

 

[Grimmdreadly]

Thanks Cold Blood. I'll scream for help don't worry. First thing to do is drill holes in that shoebox when I get her. Next question is do I drill holes half way on all 4 sides and do I drill the lid?
Thanks again.

Avics are pretty easy. Keep them in a mainstays 1quart plastic container from Walmart. Drill the lid and the sides. I drill 4 rows of 10 holes on each side for ventilation. Give them an inch of substrate, a piece of cork and a water dish. Keep the enclosure dry. Mist one side every couple of weeks and the Avic will be fine.