B. Vagans x B. Albiceps?

[JetJudo]

Ive recently gotten an offer to possibly breed my female B. Vagans with a male B. Albiceps and I was wondering a few things.

A. Is it possible to breed the two together?
B. Would they produce viable offspring?
C. Would it be considered a Hybrid breeding?

I'm not familiar with hybrid breeding at all or what drawbacks or issues could be had with it, so I'm honestly just looking for information.

Edit: I AM NEW TO THIS ALL AND WAS APPROACHED BY SOMEONE WHO CLAIMS TO BE AN EXPERT. PLEASE DO NOT GO OFF OR MAKE FUN OF ME FOR A GENUINE QUESTION. I really am just looking for information, not to be talked down to.

 

[Liquifin]

NOPE!!! NEVER BREED 2 DIFFERENT SPECIES EVER!!!!!! Don't make another mexican fantasy nightmare again!!!!!

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Ive recently gotten an offer to possibly breed my female B. Vagans with a male B. Albiceps and I was wondering a few things.

A. Is it possible to breed the two together?
B. Would they produce viable offspring?
C. Would it be considered a Hybrid breeding?

I'm not familiar with hybrid breeding at all or what drawbacks or issues could be had with it, so I'm honestly just looking for information.

This is pure heresy and nothing else, period! A true (amateur yet passionate) 'Dr. Frankenstein', is full aware, at least, that the species names are never with the first letter typed in capital letters.

Why I need always, on this site, to read something like B. Vagans, or Brachypelma Vagans, or sometimes b. Vagans? Why?

• Brachypelma vagans
• Brachypelma albiceps
• Using Italic, thank you (no, being lazy for click the 'I' option offered above isn't an excuse)

Let's try to be serious and scientific - like Chris LXXIX always is

 

[Greasylake]

1. Possible yes, recommended, no
2. Yes
3. You're breeding two different species, of course it's a hybrid.
Please do not pair these. The genetics of the brachypelma species are already muddied as it is, continuing to cross breed them is only going to make the problem much worse.

 

[PidderPeets]

A. Is it possible to breed the two together?

Yes, it's possible.

B. Would they produce viable offspring?

Yes.

C. Would it be considered a Hybrid breeding?

It would absolutely be considered hybrid breeding and is absolutely not recommended. The problem with hybridization is that it creates impure genes mixed into the hobby. Part of the reason captive breeding is so important is to maintain true species without depleting the wild populations. If you were to mix two separate species and were to sell the offspring, that's potentially hundreds of impure specimens into the gene pool. Should those hybrid offspring be paired by someone who either doesn't realize it's a hybrid or just doesn't care, that muddies the waters even further. That would continue on until finding a true species would be increasingly rare and it would do awful things for the species and the hobby.

Frankly, the person offering his albiceps to your vagans is either a fool who doesn't understand how important species purity is, or a money seeker who doesn't care about the consequences as long as he can sell something off as "B. albiceps"

 

[JetJudo]

This is pure heresy and nothing else, period! A true (amateur yet passionate) 'Dr. Frankenstein', is full aware, at least, that the species names are never with the first letter typed in capital letters.

Why I need always, on this site, to read something like B. Vagans, or Brachypelma Vagans, or sometimes b. Vagans? Why?

• Brachypelma vagans
• Brachypelma albiceps
• Using Italic, thank you (no, being lazy for click the 'I' option offered above isn't an excuse)

Let's try to be serious and scientific - like Chris LXXIX always is

Okay, first of all I've never been active nor read on forums but people that I've talked to have always capitalized, so I thought it was just how it went. Second, as I said I was honestly just curious and while I'm rather new to all of this, the person who offered is not, and I wanted to get some information. I'm sorry for having offended you in any way by the capitalization of a letter.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I'm sorry for having offended you in any way by the capitalization of a letter.

Uhm, ok. I forgive you, then, young man. You were surrounded by ignorants, but I think you was in good faith. But rejoice, now, oh rejoice, for that you can count on my 'Extreme Wisdom', and become a better man

Let's smoke together from this virtual -yet real- Peace Calumet, uh uhm

 

[JetJudo]

Yes, it's possible.



Yes.



It would absolutely be considered hybrid breeding and is absolutely not recommended. The problem with hybridization is that it creates impure genes mixed into the hobby. Part of the reason captive breeding is so important is to maintain true species without depleting the wild populations. If you were to mix two separate species and were to sell the offspring, that's potentially hundreds of impure specimens into the gene pool. Should those hybrid offspring be paired by someone who either doesn't realize it's a hybrid or just doesn't care, that muddies the waters even further. That would continue on until finding a true species would be increasingly rare and it would do awful things for the species and the hobby.

Frankly, the person offering his albiceps to your vagans is either a fool who doesn't understand how important species purity is, or a money seeker who doesn't care about the consequences as long as he can sell something off as "B. albiceps"

Thank you so much for the info? I honestly had no idea that it was such a big deal. I'll definitely be sure to contact him and let him know that it's a no-go.

NOPE!!! NEVER BREED 2 DIFFERENT SPECIES EVER!!!!!! Don't make another mexican fantasy nightmare again!!!!!

I've got no idea what you're referring to, man, but thanks?

 

[PidderPeets]

I've got no idea what you're referring to, man, but thanks?

What @Liquifin is referring to is actually exactly what I was talking about in my post. Currently, the Brachypelma genus as a whole is a train wreck right now because of both intentional and unintentional hybridization. There's certain species that it's questionable if we even have any true specimens in the hobby or if they're almost all just hybrids at this point

Edit to add: In the off chance the person with the B. albiceps genuinely doesn't know the consequences of hybridization, it might be worth mentioning that to him. You say he's more experienced with breeding, but his lack of concern for keeping species pure makes me worried he might just try with a different Brachypelma sp. or that he could have even already introduced hybrids into the population with past breeding. You could even direct him to this website for more info on how bad hybridization is, and you could even suggest he post his male in the classifieds section of this site, where he'd have a much better chance of finding a proper mate for him.

 

[boina]

Yes, it's possible.

How do you know they'd breed and produce viable offspring? Do you know someone who did? Just because it's possible to crossbreed some Brachypelma species by no means implies you can crossbreed all of them.

I don't think it would work, actually.

B. vagans and B. albopilosum seem to be rather closely related and will breed with each other and you can obviously crossbreed most of the red legged species but as far as I know no one has ever crossed B. albiceps with anything. As eager as people were to mix Brachypelmas up I'd think someone would have tried and failed.

Does anyone actually know of a successful B. albiceps hybrid?

 

[JetJudo]

What @Liquifin is referring to is actually exactly what I was talking about in my post. Currently, the Brachypelma genus as a whole is a train wreck right now because of both intentional and unintentional hybridization. There's certain species that it's questionable if we even have any true specimens in the hobby or if they're almost all just hybrids at this point

Edit to add: In the off chance the person with the B. albiceps genuinely doesn't know the consequences of hybridization, it might be worth mentioning that to him. You say he's more experienced with breeding, but his lack of concern for keeping species pure makes me worried he might just try with a different Brachypelma sp. or that he could have even already introduced hybrids into the population with past breeding. You could even direct him to this website for more info on how bad hybridization is, and you could even suggest he post his male in the classifieds section of this site, where he'd have a much better chance of finding a proper mate for him.

Will do! I'll definitely direct him here, he did seem to be rather actively looking for a mate for his male, so yeah he'll probably have a better chance at finding one here.

And I had no idea the genus was so muddled, I'm not very familiar with them, my only experience is what the girl I own now, so I'll definitely keep that in mind. Thanks again for all the info~

 

[viper69]

How long before this thread gets shut down....

 

[JetJudo]

How long before this thread gets shut down....

Dude I was honestly looking for information, as I specified I'm pretty much clueless when it comes to things like this. It was a genuine question and I'm only looking for genuine answers.

 

[viper69]

Will do! I'll definitely direct him here, he did seem to be rather actively looking for a mate for his male, so yeah he'll probably have a better chance at finding one here.

And I had no idea the species was so muddled, I'm not very familiar with them, my only experience is what the girl I own now, so I'll definitely keep that in mind. Thanks again for all the info~

Your friend either knows nothing or has questionable ethics and doesn't care about the hobby at all.

This question is asked a LOT. The truth is this people want to KNOW that what they are buying is actually what the dealer says it is. Would you want to buy whole milk only to find out it was orange juice??? Second as others mentioned, producing hybrids will dilute the gene pool.

You know it never ceases to amaze me how the dart frog people have generally kept a very good tight leash on ethical breeding, and yet for some this exotic animal (Ts) attracts many owners that seem to be the bottom of the barrel of in terms of exotic owner husbandry.

The above is a general comment, not direct at the OP.

Dude I was honestly looking for information, as I specified I'm pretty much clueless when it comes to things like this. It was a genuine question and I'm only looking for genuine answers.

Yes I know it was. I read your post. I have been on this forum far longer than most here. Hybrid threads tend to get shut down rather quickly. I'm speaking from experience, and not your question dude.

 

[JetJudo]

Yes I know it was. I read your post. I have been on this forum far longer than most here. Hybrid threads tend to get shut down rather quickly. I'm speaking from experience, and not your question dude.

Ah, I'm sorry. Again I'm rather new here so I didn't realize they tended to get shut down just because of type.

 

[viper69]

Ah, I'm sorry. Again I'm rather new here so I didn't realize they tended to get shut down just because of type.

This topic gets shut down as quickly as importing topics do hah.

 

[Theneil]

How long before this thread gets shut down....

is there any particular reason why the thread needs to be shut down?

i know the information is already in about a thousand different places in here but i personally don't see a cause to shut it down. it will probably die of it's own accord within a couple days anyway... Just my 2 cents.

 

[viper69]

is there any particular reason why the thread needs to be shut down?

i know the information is already in about a thousand different places in here but i personally don't see a cause to shut it down. it will probably die of it's own accord within a couple days anyway... Just my 2 cents.

I wasn't suggesting it NEEDS to be, where did I write those words......., just going by previous experience, nothing more hahahaha

 

[Theneil]

I wasn't suggesting it NEEDS to be, where did I write those words......., just going by previous experience, nothing more hahahaha

i misinterpreted what you meant. i opened the thread a while before i got to reading it and the only post from you i saw was the one wondering when the thread would be shut down. Seeing your later posts clarifies your intent better.

 

[viper69]

i misinterpreted what you meant. i opened the thread a while before i got to reading it and the only post from you i saw was the one wondering when the thread would be shut down. Seeing your later posts clarifies your intent better.

No intent, just wondering! hahahah