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B.Schroederi coloration

Discussion in 'Tarantula Chat' started by AF Exotics, May 18, 2017.

  1. AF Exotics

    AF Exotics Arachnosquire Old Timer

    I know there is a difference in coloration from sling ,light golden,to adult,black with dark green hue . My question is there two color forms of adult coloration. I had always assumed the black variant was the mature coloration .

    Does anyone have any experience with the lighter coloration remaining through adulthood ?

  2. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoangel Old Timer

    IMG_5352.JPG There is only one color form as far as I know. However Aphonopelma caniceps is a tarantula that resembles the schroederi.

    This photo is of the B. schroederi.
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. sjl197

    sjl197 Arachnoknight Old Timer

    Like many species on earth, there's some variation - for these tarantulas particularly in colour/tone.

    You're right there is significant change from spiderling (rather transparent) to juvenile (increasingly dark legs and abdomen) and typically having a rather light even coppery carapace, through to adulthood, where the carapace indeed often darkens and can appear greenish - as beautifully shown above.

    But mature females don't always have a equally dark carapace - like most other Brachypelma (and many tarantulas actually) aspects of carapace colour often varies, either between individuals or just throughout moult cycle - when rest of spider can also fade to brownish.

    I've had a detailed look at some in Europe which were traded as "Aphonopelma caniceps". I found no difference from B. schroederi, it seems to me someone misleading others for sales - i'm curious if was deliberate or accidental. I was already thinking them the same a few years ago (based on checking diagnostic characters in a female 'A. caniceps' moult), so check out my photos in link below where i even went ahead an paired a female of supposed 'A.caniceps' (which the moult was from) with a secure male B. schroederi. They mated fine - as you can see she had a rather light carapace. But, nothing resulted from the pairing. Later the male was preserved for detailed study. A couple of years later this same female was preserved. I've since compared them to other preserved ones (both secure female B.schroederi and male of supposed 'A.caniceps') and they all seem the same species as each other. But none are anything like the real A.caniceps, which i've also re-examined from the original museum study. Bascially the idea that these are 'A.caniceps' is another hobby myth based on nothing but air!

    Anyway, if you go with me that thy're the same, then you can see a large female of '= B.schroederi' in these photos with a rather light even metallic carapace.
    • Informative Informative x 2
  4. KezyGLA

    KezyGLA Arachnoking Active Member

    Aphonopelma caniceps juvenile female.

    Doppelganger. Both used to share the same common name too. Doesnt help :banghead:
  5. KezyGLA

    KezyGLA Arachnoking Active Member

    I thought Aphonopelma caniceps was found much farther north of Mexico to B. schro but I have raised some of each from slings, not noticing much of a difference either apart from disposition. The ones I bought as A. caniceps were defensive in comparison the the B. schro. I also noticed a big difference in growth rate, caniceps growing a good amount slower.

    On inspection of exuviae the caniceps spermathecae seemed to be more developed at smaller sizes. I wish my external hard drive was working so I could upload the photos I had.
  6. AF Exotics

    AF Exotics Arachnosquire Old Timer

    Hmm,all the more curious after the information provided. I have two young adult females who I believe are sackmates exhibiting the carapace color variations mentioned.

    One factor is the darker one molted earlier this year,where the other lighter one hasn't molted yet this year . That debate will be settled upon molting this year.

    So there seems to be some additional muddying of the waters with the A.Caniceps issue thrown in the mix . I would love to see more photographic examples of both species.

    And Thanks to those who have already contributed to this thread,very intriguing
  7. AphonopelmaTX

    AphonopelmaTX Moderator Staff Member

    I think if you really want to be sure that your Brachypelma schroederi isn't an Aphonopelma species you will have to check for the characters of Brachypelma. Since Aphonopelma caniceps has the potential to be sold with the wrong ID, as pointed out, comparing pictures could be misleading.

    Telling the two genera apart is very easy with a molt. In Brachypelma females the spermatheca is fused forming one seminal receptical. In Aphonopelma, the spermatheca comprises of two seminal recepticals. Also, Brachypelma has a stridulating organ of plumose bristles (feathery hairs) on the inside face of the coxa and trochanter of leg 1 and the same on the outside face of the palps. Aphonopelma has no stridulating organ and the inside face of the coxa of leg 1 has either thick black hairs with a wide base that tapers to the tip or thin hairs. If you have an immature male, then checking for the stridulating organ will be a good start to eliminate either genera as a possibility.
    • Informative Informative x 2
  8. AF Exotics

    AF Exotics Arachnosquire Old Timer

    Thank you very much Ap81 . That morphology should be enough in your opinion ?
  9. AphonopelmaTX

    AphonopelmaTX Moderator Staff Member

    Yes, you will need to confirm the genus your tarantula belongs to using the characters I outlined if there is a possibility there is a single species being sold as a Brachypelma or Aphonopelma species.

    If I bought a Brachypelma schroederi and found out there is a possibility of it being Aphonopelma caniceps, I would confirm what genus mine actually belonged to and update my label accordingly.
  10. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoangel Old Timer

    IMG_5369.PNG IMG_5370.PNG IMG_5372.PNG This is what Jorge Mendoza had to say....
  11. AF Exotics

    AF Exotics Arachnosquire Old Timer

    20170519_154449.jpg So here is the darker one that appears to look like B.Schroederi I've owned previously. This female's is about 4 years of age . I will get shots of the other shortly .
  12. ryan w

    ryan w Arachnopeon

    Juvenile male a.caniceps without flash. Note the red hair on the abdomen, I don't think Schroeder I have these

    Attached Files:

  13. AF Exotics

    AF Exotics Arachnosquire Old Timer

    Update , lighter carapace female's has molted and has taken on what I believe is her beautiful adult coloration ,velvety black abdomen with a few red setae and dark carapace with a slight metallic green hue.

    She used to be a coppery brown T. I have yet to access the most, waiting for her to come out once she's hardened and comfortable .

    Has anybody found solid reliable photos of A. Caniceps yet ?
  14. AF Exotics

    AF Exotics Arachnosquire Old Timer

    That's supposed to be "molt"
  15. AF Exotics

    AF Exotics Arachnosquire Old Timer

    Jose or Ap81 can comment on the above quote on whether B.Schroederi have any red hairs ? May be something seen right after a fresh molt possibly, then fades?