Avicularia urticans vs Avicularia sp. "Peru Purple"

[fuzzyavics72]

Storm your amazonica male is stunning and did you breed your avicularia sp. amazonica?

 

[Storm76]

Storm your amazonica male is stunning and did you breed your avicularia sp. amazonica?

Yes, they have been paired up. Hoping she'll drop a sac

 

[fuzzyavics72]

Awesome, I hope she drops you a nice big healthy sac. Were the male and female siblings? I'm only curious because my females are always half the size of their brothers when they mature.

 

[advan]

This thread maybe of interest. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...s-so-many-toes&p=625619&viewfull=1#post625619

 

[Austin S.]

Good looking MM, Fuzzy. However, you got me there. So, our females are Avicularia sp. "Peru Purple".

Now to find some amazonica's (manaus).

 

[fuzzyavics72]

I'm so confused. ccamaleon told me if you see a green tint you have an urticans. My mm has a green tint on his legs, so he's an urticans. Which that's what he's suppose to be.

My female is an amazonica, I'm just waiting for the male to mature. Which hopefully will be soon!!! I have over 15 amazonicas! True amazonicas!

 

[Austin S.]

I'm still confused as well. But I'm leaning towards "Peru purple", for my female. My smaller "urticans" from the first thread (black color) molted last night, so I'll get some pics up in a few days of it. My female ultramarinus molted too last night . It was a good night!

 

[fuzzyavics72]

I'll ask some friends later about the urticans. Congrats on some awesome molts!!!

 

[ccamaleon3000]

I found the pic of the old avic. Urticans from ftorres as you see way different from sp peru purple

 

[Storm76]

This thread maybe of interest. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...s-so-many-toes&p=625619&viewfull=1#post625619

That really was an interesting read! That said, I'm fully aware of the impossibilty of IDying a tarantula on pictures alone, a few exceptions exist, but with Avics that's a hard task. I will state what I know about my specimen I bought as A. sp. "Amazonica" (Manaus):

I bought these from H. Manstein over here, who I think acquired the parents years ago from M. Scheller if my memory isn't failing me. I could be wrong with this, however. What I can say, is that the spider I have here looks exactly (!) the same as every other A. sp. "Amazonica" (Manaus) I have seen from people over here. With age, they look more ruffled and somewhat duller, but they retain the greenish/blueish coloration of legs and carapace and the white-tipped satae all over. The abdomen, on older specimen, looks nearly complete blackish, except for the 1/3 part of the sides / top of it with the red satae. The leg-banding is very prominent in slings, but fades with age somewhat, never completely though.

From the thread you liked, I gather that it's possible the same species with various sizes and coloration could exists in differen locations. I agree, but my guess is as good as yours: We'll know for sure once Fukushima finishes her work.

I'm by no means a taxonomist, but I'm fairly sure that mine aren't the sp. "Peru Purple" nevertheless.


Also, yes they are siblings. MM is ~5"+, female currently ~4.75-5" - she's young, but bred with the male nevertheless. If she drops a successfull sac it'll probably not hold as many as she could fully grown. He's a bitey, skittish little monster, the female is usually a very sweet, calm specimen in comparison.

 

[Austin S.]

Just took a few new pictures of each Avicularia that I'm still weary about.

This is the female from the very first thread.
No flash, natural light through window (too windy outside)

Same female with flash only:


On page one, there is a picture of one of my Avicularia urticans (looks very "black"). This is it freshly molted and now has me more confused.
What do you all think of this little one?

Flash from phone:

Flash light only:

 

[Storm76]

My "guess" (!) would be "Peru purple" or whatever it is. My reasoning for saying so is the overall coloration of the legs in combination with the missing of the prominent leg-banding. It seems to be there, but not as prominent as I've seen it in most sp. "amazonica".

Two things though: Either your cam over-saturates your pictures, or you reworked them a bit too much. And secondly: Read the post Chad provided! It's a good, informative read with the bottom line that no matter what any of us "think" that Avic is, take it with a grain of salt and just watch it grow to an adult. Once it matures, check on the spermathecae (some species can be IDed that way, some are really hard to in the Avicularia genus as even that can look very similiar) and see if you can find out. I stay by my assumption though: Peru Purple, not amazonica.

 

[ccamaleon3000]

Im whit storm I learn alot from ray gabriel since he start posting on the net I will say late 2000 and we still in contact. Thats sp. Peru purple

 

[fuzzyavics72]

Austin apparently my mature male is an urticans. I hope you find a mm sp. Peru.

 

[Steve123]

A war of conundrums lurks beneath this thread; interesting to some as it is frustrating to others. On the one hand there has been a several-year misunderstanding regarding whether A. urticans and A. sp. “Peru purple” are the same or different species. One notes no such controversy in Germany where common names, such as Peru purple tree spider (instead of A. urticans), are not used.

Might a new US seller, under the assumption these species were identical, have sold A. urticans under the name A. sp. “Peru purple,” making the same mistake as the hobbyist?

CEC above introduces the idea of both a US urticans and a European urticans, the former of which is possibly sp. “Peru purple” in disguise and the latter of which is the real deal. Juan mentions sp. “Peru purple” masquerading as A. sp. Amazonica to increase sales.

Has there been a more maligned Avic than A. urticans? Probably, xD.

At least everyone now agrees A. urticans and A. sp. “Peru purple” are supposed to be different, with evidence from experienced keepers above. However, urticans as a candidate for the op’s unknown may have been too quickly dismissed due to the notion that, at least in the US, and according to CEC, urticans = "Peru purple" . . . except that it isn’t.

While this misunderstanding may be perpetuated in the states, many “European” urticans, true A. urticans (the “brown ones”), have been imported overseas and sold through regular channels. So it may be an exaggeration to say that in the US, “Peru purple” = urticans.

Austin, how big is your female now?

 

[Austin S.]

After getting her out last night, she is closer to 5.5" rather than 6".

Thanks for your input Steven

---------- Post added 09-23-2014 at 08:55 AM ----------

And all of my photos are taken with an iphone 5c camera, and were never touched up. I hate this camera BTW. It messes with coloration more than I thought after looking at these on my work computer. The colors for each tarantula exemplified in this thread are relatively close to the naked eye, but for some reason, they just look so much brighter when my flash is on.

 

[CEC]

I agree with you Steve123, ccamaleon3000 said he had the oringinal urticans. They are here in the US but I haven't seen or heard about them lately. The urticans I got from major dealers the last few years, in my eyes, aren't different from sp. Peru Purple(Iquitos) Now, I'm not positive nor will I (or any of us) be until the genus revision is finished and specimens have been verified by a taxonomist, it just my theory so best to keep them separate for breeding purposes. Steve, I'm glad you clarified that, I don't want people assuming all urticans in the US are sp. Peru purple (Iquitos). I was talking about mine and other people's, I have discussed this with. US and European urticans was just the name/title I gave them to identify my pronouns, which you pointed out, could be taken out of context. In that thread, I wanted people in the US to be aware of the two different species being labeled urticans when breeding these Avics.

Austin, I believe you have a sp. Peru Purple.

Bob, sp. amazonica (Manaus) and sp. Peru purple (Iquitos) have their differences even at sling stage- notice the leg coloration on sp. amazonica, they don't have the classic Avic sling beige/pink legs like sp. Peru Purple (Iquitos) do, sp. amazonica have greyish/clear legs at sling stage.

(Post Molt) Adult female sp. amazonica bred by Ray Gabriel brought over by Michael Jacobi:

 

[Storm76]

Want me to throw even more fuel into the fire? Your sp. "Amazonica" CEC, has white-tipped toes - not pink. Mine (and all those I've seen here so far from friends / breeders) are pink, not white in the least

It is like Chad and Steve and many, many others say: It's next to impossible to ID an Avic (with very few, distinct exceptions) by picture and until Fukushima's revision is published, I personally prefer to add the place of origin to the species in my records. That way, I have at least some form of tracking, despite the name it was bought as.

 

[CEC]

Haha, she has pink toes! See what pictures do.

The pink is more apparent on the leg molt stuck on the cork bark in the picture (you can even see the color difference of the yellow bands).

 

[Storm76]

Haha, she has pink toes! See what pictures do.

The pink is more apparent on the leg molt stuck on the cork bark in the picture (you can even see the color difference of the yellow bands).

Exactly what I meant