avicularia purpurea (purple pink toe tarantula) advices?

[Whitelightning777]

Here is something you might respond to. Your favorite source for information.

That's obviously from a mat kept on the underside of the enclosure. It could also be from a lamp underneath the enclosure and at another enclosure below that one.

My lamp is about 6 inches above. The heat from the red bulb and the ceramic heater are pretty much the same, just easier to see from red light.

No inverts, spiders scorpions etc should be kept with an element under them. In nature, the sun shines down.

Another reason why you measure humidity is to prevent the animal from dehydrating. You can't see humidity by looking at it, with the exception of condensation. Keep it the same as the natural habitat where they are from.

 

[miss moxie]

That's obviously from a mat kept on the underside of the enclosure. It could also be from a lamp underneath the enclosure and at another enclosure below that one.

My lamp is about 6 inches above. The heat from the red bulb and the ceramic heater are pretty much the same, just easier to see from red light.

No inverts, spiders scorpions etc should be kept with an element under them. In nature, the sun shines down.

Another reason why you measure humidity is to prevent the animal from dehydrating. You can't see humidity by looking at it, with the exception of condensation. Keep it the same as the natural habitat where they are from.

Did you watch the entire video? The spot is on the top of her abdomen, as the youtuber shows at the end of the video.

I'm done here. I'm done talking to you, because even when presented with evidence you him, haw, scratch your and type more nonsense justifying your poor keeping methods. I got my point across for any new keepers with sense who wander onto this thread and thus my goal was accomplished.

 

[Whitelightning777]

Here is something you might respond to. Your favorite source for information.

That's obviously from a mat kept on the underside of the enclosure. It could also be from a lamp underneath the enclosure and at another enclosure below that one.

My lamp is about 6 inches above. The heat from the red bulb and the ceramic heater are pretty much the same, just easier to see from red light.

No inverts, spiders scorpions etc should be kept with an element under them. In nature, the sun shines down.

Another reason why you measure humidity is to prevent the animal from dehydrating. You can't see humidity by looking at it, with the exception of condensation. Keep it the same as the natural habitat where they are from.

 

[Andrea82]

Another reason why you measure humidity is to prevent the animal from dehydrating. You can't see humidity by looking at it, with the exception of condensation. Keep it the same as the natural habitat where they are from.

You see, this is the problem. Unless you have a 200$ type of equipment, those meters are never right. The posts I've seen here, saying 'look, my device says it is exactly the right humidity' and the spider is actually hanging on for dear life into the waterdish with a shrivelend abdomen....too many.
Or the other way around. A soaked enclosure and the keeper asking 'why don't I get the humidity right, according to my meter it is still too low'.
Those things are dangerously inaccurate. Moist, stuffy enclosures kill Avicularia/Caribena/ Ybyrapora species.
This forum is not my only source of info by the way. The Dutch forum is also quite knowledgable, with people from Europe participating and sharing knowledge. You know, European breeders who manage to breed species no one else can? Where new species come into the trade often and are succesfully kept?
You want to discount that knowledge?

please read the links provided. Just read them. All aspects are explained in detail why people keep them like they do.

 

[boina]

Keep it the same as the natural habitat where they are from.

That's obviously impossible. You can never recreate nature for your tarantula. Therefore you decide to pick arbitrary elements like 'average humidity', simulate 'wind' and chose some arbitrary temps and claim you keep it the same as their natural habitat? Er... no. Nature is a little more complex than that, so please, at least drop the nature argument. Oh, and btw. your tarantula surviving so far is evidence of absolutely nothing. A study with an n of 1 is just a joke.

And about the argument 'my tarantula loves it!' well, children love sweets, but if they get to eat as much as they want they usually end up sick.

 

[Whitelightning777]

In the case of C Versicolor, here's the weather from its native habitat. It's warmer then 80 in many cases, humidity around 70 percent. In the trees where the spider actually lives, the humidity is no doubt slightly lower. Yes, it's windy there as well.

http://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/martinique

In the case of A purpurea, which is from Ecuador in the Amazon, here's the weather.

http://www.cuyabenolodge.com/ecuador/climate-weather/climate-amazon-weather.htm

Go forth and do likewise, but not exactly. You can't recreate an entire ecosystem in your home, but you can look at averages. If your native humidity varies between 60-80 percent, keep yours at about 70 percent.

If the temp varies between 75 and 85, keep it at 80 degrees. Or at least something within that range.

 

[Whitelightning777]

You see, this is the problem. Unless you have a 200$ type of equipment, those meters are never right. The posts I've seen here, saying 'look, my device says it is exactly the right humidity' and the spider is actually hanging on for dear life into the waterdish with a shrivelend abdomen....too many.
Or the other way around. A soaked enclosure and the keeper asking 'why don't I get the humidity right, according to my meter it is still too low'.
Those things are dangerously inaccurate. Moist, stuffy enclosures kill Avicularia/Caribena/ Ybyrapora species.
This forum is not my only source of info by the way. The Dutch forum is also quite knowledgable, with people from Europe participating and sharing knowledge. You know, European breeders who manage to breed species no one else can? Where new species come into the trade often and are succesfully kept?
You want to discount that knowledge?

please read the links provided. Just read them. All aspects are explained in detail why people keep them like they do.

I tested the humidity gauge and I have used more then one when I was setting up the cage to see what the humidity does when heated and when the water dish is full.

The temp and humidity gauges all of them and I have more then 1 correctly indicate that my building is at about 40-50 percent humidity. If I put them in the bathroom when I take a shower, I can get over 90%.

Obviously, and my biology teacher hammered this lesson home when I was in school, you test and calibrate a gauge before use.

I had one gauge freeze in position and become non responsive. Of course, if you're turning the system down at night and up in the daytime, the gauges should reflect that. The newer digital gauges aren't that expensive.

 

[boina]

In the case of C Versicolor, here's the weather from its native habitat. It's warmer then 80 in many cases, humidity around 70 percent. In the trees where the spider actually lives, the humidity is no doubt slightly lower. Yes, it's windy there as well.

http://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/martinique

In the case of A purpurea, which is from Ecuador in the Amazon, here's the weather.

http://www.cuyabenolodge.com/ecuador/climate-weather/climate-amazon-weather.htm

Go forth and do likewise, but not exactly. You can't recreate an entire ecosystem in your home, but you can look at averages. If your native humidity varies between 60-80 percent, keep yours at about 70 percent.

If the temp varies between 75 and 85, keep it at 80 degrees. Or at least something within that range.

NO. Absolutely NO. This is one of the biggest and most harmful, appearently undestructable, myths about keeping animals in general. Every zoo biologist can tell you how dangerously wrong that is. You never know if it is absolutely vital for your animal to experience daily shifts - in humidity, temps or whatever other factor. You never know if they just survive the average because there's a low or a high where they recover. The 'Avics need humidity' myth is the best example for that - no, they don't need humidity, but they may survive it if other factors are right. Then there are micro climates, niche conditions, and so on. From looking at averages or climate diagrams, though done often, you know absolutely nothing about the needs of your animal and if you follow averages you will, in an astonishing number of cases, kill the animal in question.

 

[Whitelightning777]

People were keeping Avics at 80+ percent humidity, based on measurements at ground level of their native habitat.

The problem is that they live in trees in the canopy, where it is more sunny, more windy (violently in frequent thunder storms) and less humid.

When I've measured mine, humidity is less then 70% probably more like 60-65%

In my condo, the maintenance people push the humidity down to close to 40% to "kill off roaches, centipedes and SPIDERS that enter the building."

I called them up and asked them why it was so low. Heck, some days I've even had static on my clothing and nosebleeds especially in winter!!

That and only 68 degrees would probably kill off and invert that wasn't from an arid environment very quickly, just like killing off the cockroaches!!

If I flipped of the switches, all my inverts world be dead within a week.

A neighbor of mine who keeps orchids had even raised hell at HOA meetings about this issue. They were saying that her use of a humidifier made her responsible for the exterminator bill.

 

[boina]

Ok, I give up - you don't get a single point I'm making. Maybe other who happen to come along will.

 

[Venom1080]

People were keeping Avics at 80+ percent humidity, based on measurements at ground level of their native habitat.

The problem is that they live in trees in the canopy, where it is more sunny, more windy (violently in frequent thunder storms) and less humid.

When I've measured mine, humidity is less then 70% probably more like 60-65%

In my condo, the maintenance people push the humidity down to close to 40% to "kill off roaches, centipedes and SPIDERS that enter the building."

I called them up and asked them why it was so low. Heck, some days I've even had static on my clothing and nosebleeds especially in winter!!

That and only 68 degrees would probably kill off and invert that wasn't from an arid environment very quickly, just like killing off the cockroaches!!

If I flipped of the switches, all my inverts world be dead within a week.

A neighbor of mine who keeps orchids had even raised hell at HOA meetings about this issue. They were saying that her use of a humidifier made her responsible for the exterminator bill.

Can you read? See all of boinas posts again. This is a biologist telling you a fairly easy to grasp concept. Yet you refuse it. How ridiculous.

Didn't you say you were leaving a while ago? Certainly no ones trying you to stop you now

 

[Whitelightning777]

I can't get the account deleted, sadly enough.

Can't YOU read?

The humidity in my condo and temperature in my condo is 40-45% and 68 degrees, totally unsuitable for any tropical invert.

Telling someone to shut off the heating lights etc is basically a trick designed to get them to kill off their pets!!

Telling them to NOT even measure the conditions simply proves that point further.

Oh, & by the way, my other spider L Klugi just molted successfully. I pulled the shed out 10 minutes ago.

The cult's fears of death and destruction have been unfounded.

 

[Venom1080]

I can't get the account deleted, sadly enough.

Can't YOU read?

The humidity in my condo and temperature in my condo is 40-45% and 68 degrees, totally unsuitable for any tropical invert.

Telling someone to shut off the heating lights etc is basically a trick designed to get them to kill off their pets!!

Telling them to NOT even measure the conditions simply proves that point further.

Oh, & by the way, my other spider L Klugi just molted successfully. I pulled the shed out 10 minutes ago.

The cult's fears of death and destruction have been unfounded.

I don't keep up with every randos comings and goings.

Simple. Log out. Don't log back in.

Build a cabinet. Move them to a closet. Anywhere where it's simple to heat with a space heater. And economical.

Tarantulas are heat addicts. They go where it's warmest. They also depend on liquid in their bodies to be able to move. Having a source of centralized heat that the animal is always drawn to is silly when you consider what heat does to liquids.

No. We don't care about you. We don't want to hurt you by killing your animals. We care about the animals YOU are responsible for.

No. Measuring is useless. Every experienced keeper has proved this. I have raised and kept some of the most difficult genera and have never once bothered with measuring. Not to mention they are often inaccurate and lead beginners astray.

Doesn't prove anything. These are durable animals. Not to mention I have no idea what conditions that klugi is in.

Cult.. what crap. This is a collection of experienced keepers. One of the best sources for arachnid info in the world.

 

[Whitelightning777]

Ok, I'll ask again one more time. It's not hard.

Is a humidity range of 40-45% and a temperature setting of 68 degrees acceptable for C Versicolor and other Avics?

I'm saying no.

 

[Whitelightning777]

If you build a cabinet, which is totally unnecessary--a suggestion merely given to waste my money, how are you going to heat it up?

You'll need some combination of lamps or mats to do it. Having a heat lamp about 8" away carefully controlled by a voltage controller is just as good.

The only thing that matters is conditions within the enclosure, having no hot spots that a T can burn itself with.

 

[Venom1080]

Ok, I'll ask again one more time. It's not hard.

Is a humidity range of 40-45% and a temperature setting of 68 degrees acceptable for C Versicolor and other Avics?

I'm saying no.

That was one line of 20. Without even being asked as a question. Clam down.

I wouldn't know. I don't measure anything. I keep all my avics dry with a water dish for drinking. Some without dishes for a period of time. You getting stressed out about humidity is why we recommend not measuring it.

Unless you live in a swamp or desert, there's not really any exceptions.

68 is low. But I don't think it would kill the animal, as long as the vents aren't pointed towards the cage. Cold breezes certainly can. Growth would probably be slower than normal.

Given to waste your money!? Get lost.

You asked for suggestions and I gave you two that are known to work.
**Don't ignore the other option either.**

Low watt heating cable running along the back. The insulation provided by the mostly closed off area allows you to warm the animals very efficiently.

Keep in mind you have two spiders. It doesn't have to be large.

Also. You ignored my original comment. Why do you not agree with boina?

 

[Whitelightning777]

Well it might give additional protection from the cat!!

If I was doing 10 or 20 spiders, I'd have to for the power bills. As it is, the lamp is 8" vertical inches away from the top of the enclosure and about 3" to the left.

For the Versicolor, there is no other heat source. The one lamp is shared with my scorpling cage.

The other one has the same type of lamp, but that one is even further away from the top, about 10" because that enclosure isn't as tall.

There is a heating mat on the side of the enclosure opposite from the skull that the spider uses as it's hide, eg its on the cold side.

Temps for that one trend at around 82 degrees and the humidity is at 60 percent. That T has a burrow. I have no idea what microclimate is going on in there. It's a bit of a pet hole.

Before premolt, her appetite was mammoth, no other way to put it.

The thing is that if the climate was wrong, it would've killed them off during molting.

The cabinet would have to be a bit larger then what you think because of the 2 scorpion cages.

I like Jamie's tarantula enclosures from what I've seen of the design but haven't tried them.

I'm using Terrablue Professional series enclosures, with the exception of the Mantis cage and the Versicolor. Those have a coated & bonded screen which prevents snagging of claws as well as critters chewing their way out. It is suitable for venomous animals that can cause serious bodily harm.

The tarantula keepers guide describes what screens to use and why. A call to the manufacturer confirmed that the cages are spider safe, no complaints received about legs breaking off etc.

The House of Tropicals pet store which sells that line uses the same enclosures for its animals. I was talking to the owner who says that they work fine now but the older ones were no good.

 

[miss moxie]

@Venom1080 It's pointless. You notice how WL777 conveniently picks through what he thinks he can argue against and ignores the rest. No matter how flawed his logic is (A call to the manufacturer ensures the enclosure is safe for spiders-- because manufacturers would never lie to sell things. Quoting the tarantula keeper as a source of information when the AUTHOR, a member of this forum, is working on a revision because of how much outdated information is in it.) he'll keep spewing it out.

 

[Whitelightning777]

A manufacturer would be unlikely to knowingly sell junk. They'd have a boycott or law suit if they did.

To get burned like that, the heat source had to basically be in physical contact with the spider. My lamps are over 8" away and only if the spider hangs out on the lid.

The heat is too widely distributed to spot burn anything. If you put a lamp in the enclosure or right on the top of the screen then yes an injury could occur.

I raised 22 scorplings (surprise delivery) in a Terra blue enclosure with a heat mat on the side and a lamp overhead.

Not even ONE was injured in any way, from the heat source or other scorplings. In addition to that, mommy scorp also lived the same way.

That's basically 23 experiments showing its safe for critters of a wide range of sizes. They have a lot of the same biology as tarantulas, book lungs blood chemistry etc.

In addition to that, both spiders have molted once and the scorplings molted many times each in the same setups.

The animals are doing fine. I'm not saying there's no other ways to do it. I'm surprised to hear anyone say that they don't even know what the humidity should be!!

Please don't mess with orchids if you feel that way!!

Here's the final proof. Versicolor looks gorgeous!!

 

[Venom1080]

A manufacturer would be unlikely to knowingly sell junk. They'd have a boycott or law suit if they did.

To get burned like that, the heat source had to basically be in physical contact with the spider. My lamps are over 8" away and only if the spider hangs out on the lid.

The heat is too widely distributed to spot burn anything. If you put a lamp in the enclosure or right on the top of the screen then yes an injury could occur.

I raised 22 scorplings (surprise delivery) in a Terra blue enclosure with a heat mat on the side and a lamp overhead.

Not even ONE was injured in any way, from the heat source or other scorplings. In addition to that, mommy scorp also lived the same way.

That's basically 23 experiments showing its safe for critters of a wide range of sizes. They have a lot of the same biology as tarantulas, book lungs blood chemistry etc.

In addition to that, both spiders have molted once and the scorplings molted many times each in the same setups.

The animals are doing fine. I'm not saying there's no other ways to do it. I'm surprised to hear anyone say that they don't even know what the humidity should be!!

Please don't mess with orchids if you feel that way!!

Here's the final proof. Versicolor looks gorgeous!! View attachment 251929 View attachment 251930 View attachment 251931 View attachment 251932 View attachment 251933

Scorpions are much more heat resistant than tarantulas. Most of them are evolved to live in deserts. A heat mats can still damage them, however, if unstated.

What kind of cages are you talking about? If it's a screen lid, then a claw can 100% get stuck in them. There is NO way around that. The seller wants money.

Hanging doesn't happen often, in fact very rarely, but it can still happen.

Tarantulas are NOT plants.

Caribena need dry conditions. You having it in a humid set up with heat lamps and very few anchor points is just sad. You will find your sling dead on the ground one day, and if not, consider yourself stupidly lucky.

And don't give me the whole "it's eating, it's doing great" thing, my first versicolor I kept same as you and it died the day after eating.

How long have you owned this spider?? Very short if I recall correctly. Mine survived 3 months with poor care like yours before dying. Just you wait. Those pics show absolutely nothing.


In the end, your heating may be fine. But it's still ideal, tarantulas don't like light. Subjecting it to bright lights isn't how a responsible keeper raises their animals.