Avic avicularia in 8x8x10 exo terra

[Poec54]

i would. avics dont live in Florida, the temps and humidity arent perfect for them. for a first time sling/arboreal/ T owner, i dont think thats very good advice.

+1. It's very easy to kill Avics in Florida, as the biggest problem they have in captivity is moist, stuffy cages.

 

[Trenor]

My third tarantula was a A.versicolor that I bought at a show 2 weeks after I bought my first two tarantulas. It is doing great along with the second versi and an A.amazonica. Yeah, they can be tricky and from what I have seen on the boards indicates some people have trouble. We have pretty high humidity here in NC. A stuffy cage will kill one no matter where it is raised. You just have to get the setup right but that IMO hasn't been too hard. I don't know, maybe my experience has been the exception.

He has a enclosure that can be setup for a arboreal tarantula. Which one would you recommend as a good start out arboreal?

 

[edesign]

+1. It's very easy to kill Avics in Florida, as the biggest problem they have in captivity is moist, stuffy cages.

The only times my homes in south Louisiana barely 20 miles from the Gulf Coast, when I lived there for many years and had my first round of inverts, were stuffy and moist was when I left the windows and doors open. Central air reduces the humidity a decent amount but yes, you still have to account for some natural humidity. Key, as you know, is to not get carried away with adding too much moisture in the enclosures and get proper ventilation. Maybe Trenor and I are lucky *shrugs*

 

[Venom1080]

The only times my homes in south Louisiana barely 20 miles from the Gulf Coast, when I lived there for many years and had my first round of inverts, were stuffy and moist was when I left the windows and doors open. Central air reduces the humidity a decent amount but yes, you still have to account for some natural humidity. Key, as you know, is to not get carried away with adding too much moisture in the enclosures and get proper ventilation. Maybe Trenor and I are lucky *shrugs*

so if humidity soars when windows are open, and lowers when closed, its not a benefit to raise a avic in Florida. if anything, its harder.

 

[Venom1080]

+1. It's very easy to kill Avics in Florida, as the biggest problem they have in captivity is moist, stuffy cages.

i was thinking along those lines.

 

[Trenor]

My third tarantula was a A.versicolor that I bought at a show 2 weeks after I bought my first two tarantulas. It is doing great along with the second versi and an A.amazonica. Yeah, they can be tricky and from what I have seen on the boards indicates some people have trouble. We have pretty high humidity here in NC. A stuffy cage will kill one no matter where it is raised. You just have to get the setup right but that IMO hasn't been too hard. I don't know, maybe my experience has been the exception.

He has a enclosure that can be setup for a arboreal tarantula. Which one would you recommend as a good start out arboreal?

It is not my intention to call out anyone in this post. I can only speak to my experience with Avics and that is all.

I myself would like to know if there are easier arboreal to start off with. If anyone has some good suggestions please chime in.

 

[Johnec97]

In my opinion Eco Terra's are not good for t's. A lot of them have metal screen tops, no cross ventilation, they're too wide for arboreals and too tall for terrestrials because the forward doors don't allow you to put in deep enough substrate. Eco Terra's are for lizards and the like, they look great. The best t cages don't look great as their most important feature, they provide your t with a safe and secure environment. I believe, avic's especially, do better in smaller cages. It allows them to more easily create their nest and reduces the amount of room they must hunt for their prey. I would keep a full grown 4 inch even in nothing larger than a 6 x 6 x 12" container, so seeing a 1 inch avic housed in an exo terra pains me. The poor t is going to end up wedged in one corner with a tiny triangle of a web because no one ever puts enough plants in there to attach to. They probably feel like it's more important to see their t at all times but that is no kind of healthy normal existence for an animal that needs a secure hide to spend 1/3 of its life molting in. Personally I use acrylic model car cases on end with 2" louvered vents on both sides and the front.

The juvi or sling will not be in the exo terra, it will be kept in a series of deli cups until it's 3 or so inches, then moved into the exo terra

 

[Johnec97]

He has a enclosure that can be setup for a arboreal tarantula. Which one would you recommend as a good start out arboreal

I'm open to suggestions if you guys think that something else would be better suited for a beginner with the enclouser I have. I only picked the Avic avic becaus so thought it was pretty and read it was a good starter if purchased as a juvi

 

[edesign]

so if humidity soars when windows are open, and lowers when closed, its not a benefit to raise a avic in Florida. if anything, its harder.

And yet Trenor and I have had no real issues. Crazy.

Also, most people I knew didn't open their windows in such weather. I would leave doors open to let my cats go in and out.

 

[edesign]

I can only speak to my experience with Avics and that is all.

Same here. And it's positive so far both in hot and humid south Louisiana and here at altitude in hot or cold and dry Colorado. Haven't noticed any particular difficulties. That's all I'm saying.

 

[beaker41]

If it's a sling I would keep it in a vial with a little coco and a rolled up fake leaf. I keep my slings in 20 drams until they're to an inch and then to 40 drams till 2 inch. I like the vials for arboreals better than delis for the height. I get my vials from thornton's bulk and they've got some even taller ones that look even better for height.

 

[viper69]

The OP lives in Florida.

How is this relevant? One can keep Avics quite well in Alaska. The atmospheric humidity has very little, if anything, to do with one's success in keeping Avics. Unless of course one has no A/C and poor insulation etc.

 

[viper69]

In my opinion Eco Terra's are not good for t's. A lot of them have metal screen tops, no cross ventilation, they're too wide for arboreals

I'm assuming you meant Exo Terras.... The ExoTerra's can work quite well for Avics, a very reputable Avic breeder uses them among other breeders I've seen. Aside from that, you are correct about the screen no doubt! Just drop in acrylic w/ventilation holes drilled in.

They do have ventilation from the front and the top and around the doors as they are not air tight.

This is the same design as used by the Europeans, where they primarily use glass cubes/rectangular shaped containers. A strip of metal at the bottom front for ventilation and middle/back of the top glass for ventilation. That's what the ExoTerras are modeled from, it's a Germany company.

SO in point of fact, that style works quite well for the Europeans and for the USA crew as well. Sure if that style wasn't working, the Europeans wouldn't be so successful at breeding Ts. They put practically everything into those types of glass containers. As a side note, my A. metallica had no issues w/an ExoTerra.

What puzzles me is the following:

1. Why do you think ExoTerras are too large, surely you don't think Avics live in a volume of space for their entire lives that is 6x6x12'' ? If so, you'd be mistaken.
2. Why do you think reducing the amount of space an Avic needs to hunt prey is an important husbandry factor? You don't think they can hunt in larger spaces, they do just fine in the wild.

Granted it's important to put a T in an appropriate sized container as you mentioned, and also correct you were, many people don't put enough cage furniture in their so their Avic feels secure.

 

[beaker41]

As common as a. Avic is as a "beginner" species, I feel like a lot of people come home from the local chain pet store with a reptile cage, assuming that a tarantula has the same space requirements as a reptile. The cages I've seen locally are ones cube shaped with screen tops and frameless glass doors on the front. a common mistake that people make starting out is to sacrifice ventilation for humidity, over misting and getting stagnation. If the reptile style cages (not sure of the brand I'm sure there are a dozen knock offs out there) are well ventilated it should be fine, certainly if there's holes in the back too, I assumed it was closed on the ones I saw.
As to cage size, I'm mainly talking about raising a sling or juvie. Once adult, there's not as much concern for efficiency as you have when raising them. The mortality rate on slings is high enough without extra stress. People new to the hobby sometimes see it as cruel to raise a 1/2" sling in a small vial 1.5"x3" as though it needed more room to roam. I feel like starting your t in too large a home is going to inhibit their development as they're going to spend more calories securing a larger area and searching for prey than if they had only a small home to maintain. In the wild I would imagine most t's spend as much time as possible in a confined area, a nicely webbed nest among leaves in the treetops. Certainly they roam to hunt if nothing delivers itself or in the event of weather but if they got delivery in the wild in sure they'd be content to just sit there and get fat, a luxury reserved for our beloved pets. The same applies to terrestrial t's , new people often react in horror to someone who keeps in small deli's as opposed to a 3" t all alone in a 10 gallon. I'd wager one raised in a small deli, undisturbed by light, at 0 risk of fall, maximizing their calories for growth and health, does better overall than one in too large an area, sacrificing functionality for aesthetics.
Basically it comes down to the constant question people ask, does my t need more room? I generally say no they need less. If they stuffed those big cubes with leaves and branches and gave their t somewhere to hide it would be much more healthy for the t, though less aesthetically pleasing. I don't see avics as much of a "display" species as other species and I think this is another misconception that people new to the hobby have, that they are going to be able to see their pet all the time. The big open areas of a cube just seem to me sacrificing quality of life for aesthetics, not a knock on the brand, just a general trend I see among new keepers. A 8"x8"x8" cube seems like a death trap for a 1/2" - 1" sling imo

 

[viper69]

As common as a. Avic is as a "beginner" species, I feel like a lot of people come home from the local chain pet store with a reptile cage, assuming that a tarantula has the same space requirements as a reptile. The cages I've seen locally are ones cube shaped with screen tops and frameless glass doors on the front. a common mistake that people make starting out is to sacrifice ventilation for humidity, over misting and getting stagnation. If the reptile style cages (not sure of the brand I'm sure there are a dozen knock offs out there) are well ventilated it should be fine, certainly if there's holes in the back too, I assumed it was closed on the ones I saw.
As to cage size, I'm mainly talking about raising a sling or juvie. Once adult, there's not as much concern for efficiency as you have when raising them. The mortality rate on slings is high enough without extra stress. People new to the hobby sometimes see it as cruel to raise a 1/2" sling in a small vial 1.5"x3" as though it needed more room to roam. I feel like starting your t in too large a home is going to inhibit their development as they're going to spend more calories securing a larger area and searching for prey than if they had only a small home to maintain. In the wild I would imagine most t's spend as much time as possible in a confined area, a nicely webbed nest among leaves in the treetops. Certainly they roam to hunt if nothing delivers itself or in the event of weather but if they got delivery in the wild in sure they'd be content to just sit there and get fat, a luxury reserved for our beloved pets. The same applies to terrestrial t's , new people often react in horror to someone who keeps in small deli's as opposed to a 3" t all alone in a 10 gallon. I'd wager one raised in a small deli, undisturbed by light, at 0 risk of fall, maximizing their calories for growth and health, does better overall than one in too large an area, sacrificing functionality for aesthetics.
Basically it comes down to the constant question people ask, does my t need more room? I generally say no they need less. If they stuffed those big cubes with leaves and branches and gave their t somewhere to hide it would be much more healthy for the t, though less aesthetically pleasing. I don't see avics as much of a "display" species as other species and I think this is another misconception that people new to the hobby have, that they are going to be able to see their pet all the time. The big open areas of a cube just seem to me sacrificing quality of life for aesthetics, not a knock on the brand, just a general trend I see among new keepers. A 8"x8"x8" cube seems like a death trap for a 1/2" - 1" sling imo

Got it now, I see where you are coming from. I agree with many thoughts up there, esp w/beginners. I didn't realize that was primarily the perspective you were coming at in the context of slings too. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[edesign]

How is this relevant? One can keep Avics quite well in Alaska. The atmospheric humidity has very little, if anything, to do with one's success in keeping Avics. Unless of course one has no A/C and poor insulation etc.

Judging by the responses from Venom1080 and poec54 you'd think it makes a large difference. I said in my posts that I've raised or am raising Avic slings both in south LA and in Denver and haven't had any special challenges even when conditions haven't been perfect. Central heating and air evens things out a lot in many areas of the country. I don't have central air in my new home, just heat and an attic fan to draw cool outside air in during the evening in the summer meaning I rely on tree shade and insulation to keep temps down. In the winter the heater runs a lot thus drying the air more than usual meaning enclosures dry out more quickly. Someone who is not attentive enough would have a harder time keeping humidity up and would be more prone to losing a sling. That is why I said it shouldn't be an issue to raise an Avic sling if someone pays attention and does their homework.

The OP was told to avoid a sling as a newbie because they were hard to raise. Being a newbie doesn't mean you're stupid and can't be successful. I also agreed that they'd be better off with a larger spider to begin with especially since that species is cheap even at larger sizes. I just posted that in my experience they're not hard to raise even when conditions aren't perfect if you do a little homework, set up the enclosures correctly, pay attention to them, and maybe have a little luck.

I pointed out that there were times where I left my doors open and occasionally windows while living in a hot and humid (most of the year) environment and that the slings were ok. Same with my new home that I moved in to in October (had the versis before then), there's been temperature fluctuations due to home construction/amenities but so far so good and I plan to take steps to reduce them (first home I've owned)

This was my personal experience; that they don't seem as fragile as some make them out to be. That's all. Not arguing that they may be more sensitive and possibly not the best choice for every beginner.

 

[edesign]

Also interesting that you mention Alaska. That's where I'm from...there have been a couple T keepers on the forums from Alaska that I've seen.

 

[viper69]

Also interesting that you mention Alaska. That's where I'm from...there have been a couple T keepers on the forums from Alaska that I've seen.

I mentioned it because about 2 or 3 years this past December I was talking to a breeder friend of mine on the phone. He had to get off the phone and ship off some Ts to Alaska. The temps were very cold, and when I talked to him later not a SINGLE sling had died. He's the best packer I've ever seen. If I had to move my collection a long distance by mail, I'd fly him out just so he could pack my Ts.

 

[edesign]

That's crazy. December can get some really cold temps especially in the Interior where I lived (coldest I've seen was about -78F). Definitely expert packing skills! You might be on to something...specialty T packers and movers!

 

[Poec54]

I'm open to suggestions if you guys think that something else would be better suited for a beginner with the enclouser I have. I only picked the Avic avic becaus so thought it was pretty and read it was a good starter if purchased as a juvi

Avics only get recommended as first arboreals because they're not as fast and/or defensive as the other arboreal genera. But most people read idiotic care sheets and over-mist, killing them in the process. It takes a while for someone to get a feel for terrestrial tarantulas, and a while after that for arboreals, especially Avics. We've had many 'My Dead Avic' threads here from people who were in a hurry to get an Avic without an understanding their special needs. They're not beginner spiders; way too many have died in beginner hands. 'To fill an empty cage' isn't a particularly good reason to get one.