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Avic Avic or Avicularia Metallica?

Discussion in 'Tarantula Chat' started by Ztesch, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Ztesch

    Ztesch Arachnopeon Active Member

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    I bought this T at a local pet shop as a Avic avic. The more I look at the Avicularia Metallica species, the more I think that's what mine could be. The only real difference I saw between the 2 was A. Avic wasn't as fluffy and had kind of a red rump. What do you all think?
     
  2. Ztesch

    Ztesch Arachnopeon Active Member

    Also if you could tell the sex from the under abdomen let me know.
     
  3. Venom1080

    Venom1080 Arachnoking Active Member

    I'd say metallica, But it's never a good idea to picture id Avicularia.

    Maybe @CEC could chime in.
     
  4. BC1579

    BC1579 Arachnosquire Active Member

    Whatever it is it's very handsome. I love that genus.
     
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  5. Ztesch

    Ztesch Arachnopeon Active Member

    Ya it is really nice looking thank you. I just would like to know for sure the actual species name. I saw something on you tube where Avics have like 6 or 7 color morphs instead of 6 or 7 different species. If anyone could explain this to me I would be much appreciated.
     
  6. 14pokies

    14pokies Arachnoprince Active Member

    That looks like some specimens I get in as "Metallica" from Guiana.. They vary though. I have a few that show alot green and some that show alot of blue. Some have very light rose colored setae on the hind legs tipped with silver and some don't sporting jet black silver tipped hairs..some are ridiculously fuzzy and some are only just a little more fuzzy than A.avic but are seven inches DSL much larger than any A.avic collected from Surinam. Same exporter same general collection location supposedly same species.

    This is where the confusion and speculation on color variation versus species really comes into play.

    The confusion on the Avic name game may be explained best by @CEC, @advan but the quick and dirty as I understand it is that several forms and or species exist in the same region that look similar yet may be genetically different and some that look different but may be genetically similar.Scientists are trying to decide whether they are valid species or just color forms of the same species.

    *Edit* to answer your last question your Tarantula is a female ;)..
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
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  7. Ztesch

    Ztesch Arachnopeon Active Member

    *Edit* to answer your last question your Tarantula is a female;)..
    @14pokies Hell ya, that's my first confirmed female. Thanks bro. So how long do female avics live around 8 years or so.
     
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  8. cold blood

    cold blood ArachnoGod Active Member

    A better pic is needed...its just too distant...if you took it with your phone, just crop the image. Avic avic have red on their rump...metallica does not.
     
  9. Ztesch

    Ztesch Arachnopeon Active Member

    Screenshot_2017-10-12-18-07-46.png I havent seen any red on her abdomen.
     
  10. 14pokies

    14pokies Arachnoprince Active Member

    They are also supposed to have white toes.. If that's the case then I have never seen A.metallica..

    Jacobi explored the habitat of A.met and some of the specimens that he felt were metallica had some red hairs on there booty.. He made the argument that some of what we see in the hobby as A.met are actually the product of selective breeding to look more like what we expect oit of a classic example of A.metallica..Maybe they were misidentified as A.met and were some other species of Avics or possibly natural hybrids.. I don't know.

    I know the one thing in common with all the wild metallicas I have recieved is that there are no red hairs on the abdomen.. Some have red hair on the legs though. Two of my three largest molted recently I'll take a few pics to show the variation that I have seen coming in.
     
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  11. 14pokies

    14pokies Arachnoprince Active Member

    @cold blood and whomever else may stumble apon this and finds it usefull or interesting..

    My green girl, setae is very dense,long and has a slight pinkish hue overall on the hind legs . The pinkish colaration is more apparent in natural light. Her toes are pink overall but are outlined in white 20171012_201632.jpg

    My more blue girl, very dense and markedly fiber optic appearing setae out of the three. In natural light she throws no pinks.. Very pale toes also
    20171012_201810.jpg

    This girl is due for a molt but in natural light she is very pink.. When I first saw her I thought she was a massive A.avic untill I noticed her abdomen was not red.. It's not clear in the pic but her setae, especially on the rear legs is much longer than the other two females and less dense.. The overall coloration of the setae is pink only showing a little black at the base. In person she looks like an A.avic with an A.met abdomen. Her exo is also much darker black with only a slight blue hue.. Her toes are both pale and outlined in white. She's rather strange looking in person and freshly molted. 20171012_202459.jpg
    I'm posting this for no other reason than to illustrate the variation in the 'wild type" of what we refer to as A.metallica. I'm not implying that they should or shouldn't display these characteristics. This is purely what I see being brought in by a reputable importer that I work with.

    I had a hobby form A.met that I sold a few weeks ago and now I wish I had grabbed pics. The difference is staggering and IMO the wild type looks much better..

    Hope this was usefull to someone o_O...
     
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  12. Ztesch

    Ztesch Arachnopeon Active Member

    So my Versicolor finally looks like its going to molt. It should only take a couple hours rite?. ( 1 inch sling)
    20171012_195714.jpg
     
  13. 14pokies

    14pokies Arachnoprince Active Member

    No general time frame really.. It could take ten minutes or ten hours.. With mine at that size it's usually take less than two hours start to finish.

    Just leave it to do it's spider things undisturbed.
     
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  14. Ztesch

    Ztesch Arachnopeon Active Member

    @14pokies hey I recently got a .5 Sazamai sling. Do you have any advice raising them from slings?
     
  15. cold blood

    cold blood ArachnoGod Active Member

    All NW terrestrial slings are cared for basically the same way. Small cup, damp or partially damp substrate.
     
  16. Ztesch

    Ztesch Arachnopeon Active Member

    So am I in the wrong if I'm going a little bit damper for my more humid species compared to my brachy slings?
     
  17. 14pokies

    14pokies Arachnoprince Active Member

    I have raised two sacmates now from about 3/4 inch to there current 2- 3/4inch size. They are easy as long as you provide them moist substrate and a small cork slab as a hide.. Not that mine use a hide because they don't.. Mine also don't burrow but many say they do so provide them a substrate depth that is roughly two times there DLS.. Your little guy is half an inch so provide sub that is atleast 1-1/2- two inches deep.

    Temps have fluctuated from high 80s to low seventy in my T room and they are doing great.

    Mine have been very nervous feeders on live prey.. They would run from sizable prey untill recently.. After seeing them bolt from small crickets I started crushing the heads of the crickets or would just provide them super worms with crushed heads.. They allways feed voraciously on pre killed prey compared to live.. If yours is as nervous as mine just feed them prekilled. Growth picked up considerably once I switched.

    So far they have been relatively slow growers. Two inches in like 8-10 monthso_O...I do attribute that to the relatively bad feeding responce towards live prey when they were small.. It may be that this species just grows slow.. I don't know anyone else raising them so I have no comparisons..

    They are really easy to keep just don't let them dry out.. I left one dry just to see how it responded and it lost a leg during molt.. I can't say it's directly related but it hasn't happened again since I resumed wetting the sub. Its sibling was always kept on moist sub and it hasn't had any molting problems..

    Lastly they are fast as hell when they want to be.. And somewhat defensive. Mine aren't afraid to slap at me or bolt or a combination of the two when I'm filling water dishes or cleaning up in there enclosure.. Keep there speed in mind and rehouse them somewhere that you can easily contain him.
     
  18. Ztesch

    Ztesch Arachnopeon Active Member

    Awesome! Thanks for the info. So far I have fed it a mealworm with a crushed head and it took it down pretty good.
     
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  19. Ztesch

    Ztesch Arachnopeon Active Member

    My Versi completed the molt. Curled up it looks like double the size! I love my versicolor. When it was eating, it would destroy its prey.
     
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  20. CEC

    CEC Arachnolord Arachnosupporter

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    My interpretation of the revision is most of these color variations of Avicularia metallica in the hobby are Avicularia avicularia morphotype #6 and most these color variations of Avicularia avicularia in the hobby are Avicularia avicularia morphotype #1. It's likely the morphotypes have been mixed in the hobby, they may even have mixed in the wild because some morphotypes like these two share the same habitats.
    Morphotypes are categorized mainly by setae structure but color descriptions are listed for each.

    Here is a chart of the recorded distribution of the Avicularia avicularia morphotypes.
    https://zookeys.pensoft.net/lib/aja...=zoom_figure&instance_id=112&article_id=10717
     
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