Attention when buying Theraphosa

[hooale]

Where is that info from?
Later, Tom

It's Vinmann's pricelist.

---------- Post added at 12:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 AM ----------

from someones stock list...and i am planing to buy some Brazil juveniles 5cm legspan (2months old)...do you thing they can be sexed at this size (they are the cheapest).

Yes Theraphosa is easy to sex. It should be not an issue. But pls do it yourselve..

---------- Post added at 12:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------

I'd like to know how/where they got there info that Surinam form (or what ever it really is) is the largest. Im not doubting it, just never heard about it anywhere else.

Later, Tom

I am also curious about this. Surinam is occasionally exporting Dendrobates & snakes but i wasn't aware that they would also export T's...

 

[Mr Pugsley]

Those from French Guyana and Surinam are the true T blondi, the ones from Brazil and Guyana are T stirmi. I picked up single sub-adult pairs of the former two from the dealer at the Hamm show, Germany, yesterday.

There are actually a lot of true T blondi slings about in mainland europe at the moment

Mark (UK)

 

[Mez]

Mark, I will be looking to reserve/pick up a blondii sling at the BTS, can you help?
The reason people sell them as t. blondii varies, but here I reckon its because they are imported as 'Goliath Bird Eaters' which have always been blondii before the new species addition, and most shops won't be keeping up with data like that.
Private individuals selling may not be 'into' tarantulas, and may just have one, read a book, got bored and are selling them.

 

[PSYS]

This is disheartening.

We need to get some experienced people that have been in the hobby for quite some time doing the identification and breeding to not only prevent further confusion, but also, to alleviate any unintentional cross-breeding.

It doesn't help that both species look and appear similar... but passing off T. stirmi as T. blondi is not only unethical, but evidently - these individuals are making a profit at this and adding unnecessary confusion to our hobby.

My 2 pennies.

 

[Philth]

Those from French Guyana and Surinam are the true T blondi, the ones from Brazil and Guyana are T stirmi.

Mark (UK)

Accorrding to The World Spider Catalog , Theraphosa blondi comes from Guyana as well.

The reason people sell them as t. blondii varies, but here I reckon its because they are imported as 'Goliath Bird Eaters' which have always been blondii before the new species addition

The import papers probably say T. blondi ( regardless of what the species was) ,and not Goliath Birdeater. Wether they were the real T. blondi or not , I suspect importers , pet shops ect, coudn't care less what they were. Big brown spiders sell when you call them birdeaters.

This is disheartening.
We need to get some experienced people that have been in the hobby for quite some time doing the identification and breeding to not only prevent further confusion, but also, to alleviate any unintentional cross-breeding.

Its really not hard to tell them apart. A few minutes of research and anybody can tell them apart. Especially with the spiderlings and adults. For me its still a bit tricky to tell apart juvie's though.

Later, Tom

 

[Fran]

Its really not hard to tell them apart. A few minutes of research and anybody can tell them apart. Especially with the spiderlings and adults. For me its still a bit tricky to tell apart juvie's though.

Later, Tom

Agree. Thats the only stage that is a bit tricky since both of them will have dark tarsi/metatarsi and both will appear equaly "fuzzy".

In general, I believe, Blondi tends to be darker in colour and markings.

 

[Mr Pugsley]

[
I am also curious about this. Surinam is occasionally exporting Dendrobates & snakes but i wasn't aware that they would also export T's...[/QUOTE]

I think you have to remember that the Germans are very good at 'acquiring' specimens. that is, for example, how the likes of B baumgarteni appeared in the hobby

[ This is disheartening.

We need to get some experienced people that have been in the hobby for quite some time doing the identification and breeding to not only prevent further confusion, but also, to alleviate any unintentional cross-breeding.

It doesn't help that both species look and appear similar... but passing off T. stirmi as T. blondi is not only unethical, but evidently - these individuals are making a profit at this and adding unnecessary confusion to our hobby.

My 2 pennies. [/QUOTE]

Thomas Vinnmann is not attemting to pass of stirmi as blondi; I didn't ask him, however suspect he is simply not convinced by the Rudloff and Veinmann paper and so prefers to describe them as variants. His description instantly identifies them as he refers to the glabrous patellas

People need to ensure the two species are , along with T. apophysis, not only kept separate but also bred as much as possible. I was talking to a well known european dealer in Hamm and he was very clear that it is likely T. stirmi will not be imported for too much longer.

When I first entered the hobby some 25 years ago people tended to rely on wild caught female T. blondi dropping eggsacs and didn't worry too much about breeding them; the thinking being wild caught specimens would continue to be available. We should not make that mistake with T. stirmi

Just my two 'penneth also

Mark

 

[pato_chacoana]

...and T. blondi are also found in Brazil...

I agree Mark, I wish there were more Captive Breeding efforts and no such massive WC for any clueless idiot to have a Theraphosa
Also, the damn dead trade is huge...at least what I've seen in FG...really depressing

cheers,
Pato

 

[Mr Pugsley]

My comments relating to the origins of the specimens related solely to the specimens on Thomas' stock list, i.e. attempting to distinguish twixt T blondi and T stirmi on his stock list. It was absolutely not a comment on what species were to be found in which countries

Cheers

Mark

 

[Venom]

Since the taxonomy of Theraphosa has been botched for some time now, I'm wondering if anyone has attempted to mate T. blondi and T. stirmi....and if so, what resulted. I have a sneaking suspicion that they might be close enough to reproduce fertile offspring (i.e., not genetically incompatible, and therefore more along the lines of variants/ subspecies rather than incompatable and separate species ) .

 

[Philth]

My comments relating to the origins of the specimens related solely to the specimens on Thomas' stock list, i.e. attempting to distinguish twixt T blondi and T stirmi on his stock list. It was absolutely not a comment on what species were to be found in which countries

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark, I was just pointing out that both T. blondi and T. stirmi are found in Guyana,so how do you know what your getting when a a dealer is calling them all blondi, but from different loclas:? It would seem easier and less confusing to me just to call them buy the 3 names the genus has.

Since the taxonomy of Theraphosa has been botched for some time now, I'm wondering if anyone has attempted to mate T. blondi and T. stirmi....and if so, what resulted. I have a sneaking suspicion that they might be close enough to reproduce fertile offspring (i.e., not genetically incompatible, and therefore more along the lines of variants/ subspecies rather than incompatable and separate species ) .

According to ...

Rudloff J.-P. & D. Weinmann. 2010. A new giant tarantula from Guyana. Arthropoda Scientia 1 (1): 20-38.


"In 2008 and 2009 Theraphosa collected
in Guyana were imported to
Germany and were sold in the pet
trade. All breeding attempts of
these spiders with earlier imported
Theraphosa blondi from French
Guyana revealed that eggsacs were
either infertile or so weak, that all
the offspring died in a larval stage."

Without turning this thread into a debate of what the definition of a species is, its well known that other tarantulas can hybridize . B. vagans x B. albopilosum or P. ornata x P. fasciata. Wether or not they are the same sp. morphs, color forms sub sp. or whatever they should be kept seperate. Just like the way panther chamelon and green tree python breeders keep there forms seperate.

Later, Tom

 

[Mr Pugsley]

Hi Mark, I was just pointing out that both T. blondi and T. stirmi are found in Guyana,so how do you know what your getting when a a dealer is calling them all blondi, but from different loclas:? It would seem easier and less confusing to me just to call them buy the 3 names the genus has.]

So:


T stirmi = hairless patellas
T blondi = hairy patellas
I do, however, fully agree with you. I don't understand why Thomas doesn't use the described names. He readily confirmed my understanding of which was which when I asked him. As I said earlier, I can only assume he doesn't agree with the Rudloff paper. Nevertheless describing them as he does only invites confusion.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Taipan]

This still leaves me confused as to what my two are.
Hairy knees but even at 3" the have light colored feet.

 

[Formerphobe]

To quote Anastasia from a previous thread:

Theraphosa blondi spiderlings dont have blond feet
Theraphosa apophysis spiderlings have all 8th feet blond
Theraphosa sp 'Burgundy' spiderlings have only 4 front feet blond
Also would like to point T apophysis spiderlings have blond palps is well
But Theraphosa sp 'Burgundy' palps are dark, not blond

 

[Taipan]

So I have burgundys (strimi) that had(have) four blond feet AND have hairy patellas?? That doesn't all compute.

 

[Philth]

So I have burgundys (strimi) that had(have) four blond feet AND have hairy patellas?? That doesn't all compute.

It will loose the patella hair as it grows.

Later, Tom

 

[arachnobint]

This is weird, are there any other T's with such confusing identification?

 

[mcluskyisms]

So I have burgundys (strimi) that had(have) four blond feet AND have hairy patellas?? That doesn't all compute.

The Theraphosa Situation - Visual ID

:razz:

 

[Philth]

This is weird, are there any other T's with such confusing identification?

IMO its, pretty simple compared to alot of other T's.
Later, Tom

 

[arachnobint]

well in my amateur status its a bit of a shock to learn its not all black and white, kinda like i naively thought