Atrax Robustus as a pet

Mikey_Deadcat

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Alright i have the chance to purchase although quite expensive a Sydney Funnel Web or Atrax robustus now before you go calling me a dumb ass consider this i never handle any of my T's i open a sliding small plastic door in the top and drop food in for them. I have been keeping spiders since at least 6 years of age starting with three recluses i found in our garage dont know how i never got bit but i still kept them because i wasnt as wise about them as i am now. Ive also kept two Black Widows (which are actually very interesting spiders). And i guess im throwing up the question do you think if i was obnoxiousely careful around this spider and only opened the cage to place food in and was completely professional about it that it would still be a bad species to keep. I think they are gorgeous spiders with the metallic black shining look. And i have heard there behavior is very interesting. So what do you think should i get it or no?
 

Wee Man

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As long as you dont attempt to hold it or give it any chance to escape then you are fine.
 

sick4x4

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well if i could i would...though i think they are illegal here in the states??? or rather they haven't been cleared to be shipped???to the best of my knowledge in the states??? soo if your getting one ....it more then likely was smuggled in?? so i would be weary posting in any public forum...other then that yeah they are great spiders very agro......but awesome when can be seen.... all shiny and such.......there are a few species of funnel spiders that look like it here in the states soo be careful and make sure it is what u are buying!!! congrats though i wish i could get one lol
 

lucanidae

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We had one legally in the spider lab I work in for a while. Definitley not hard to keep yourself safe, but definitley illegal to have. If it is truly a Sydney Funnel Web it was smuggled here and you shouldn't promote this type of illegal activity.
 

buthus

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We had one legally in the spider lab I work in for a while. Definitley not hard to keep yourself safe, but definitley illegal to have. If it is truly a Sydney Funnel Web it was smuggled here and you shouldn't promote this type of illegal activity.
Who said it is illegal?
I called the US Dept of the Interior Fish & Wildlife Service Law enforcement division because I'm starting to have spiders shipped from overseas. I was informed that as long as you fill out the proper forms claiming what your package contains so the port authorities know whats up, your in the clear. The guy I talked was an old guy that has worked for FWS for many years... talked my ear off and said he deals with many regular importers of arachnids. According to him there are no species of arachnid that are illegal to import into the US. The only thing one needs to consider is State and local laws regarding exotic pets.



The male Atrax delivers one bad arse bite, but is it as bad as some of these scorps that I see being sold? I doubt it.
 

lucanidae

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Who said it is illegal?
I called the US Dept of the Interior Fish & Wildlife Service Law enforcement division because I'm starting to have spiders shipped from overseas. I was informed that as long as you fill out the proper forms claiming what your package contains so the port authorities know whats up, your in the clear. The guy I talked was an old guy that has worked for FWS for many years... talked my ear off and said he deals with many regular importers of arachnids. According to him there are no species of arachnid that are illegal to import into the US. The only thing one needs to consider is State and local laws regarding exotic pets.
I'm not saying it is illegal to have them here, I'm saying I HIGHLY doubt that the Australian government is allowing them to be exported for the pet trade. Look at all the work that had to be done to get three species of Australian tarantulas here.......Australia is REALLY REALLY strict and I doubt these are being legally exported.
 

Tony

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Who said it is illegal?
I called the US Dept of the Interior Fish & Wildlife Service Law enforcement division because I'm starting to have spiders shipped from overseas. I was informed that as long as you fill out the proper forms claiming what your package contains so the port authorities know whats up, your in the clear. The guy I talked was an old guy that has worked for FWS for many years... talked my ear off and said he deals with many regular importers of arachnids. According to him there are no species of arachnid that are illegal to import into the US. The only thing one needs to consider is State and local laws regarding exotic pets.

The male Atrax delivers one bad arse bite, but is it as bad as some of these scorps that I see being sold? I doubt it.
Heh, call again and the next guy you get may give you a 180 degree answer...And I bet it depends on which airport you plan to bring them into...I thought of importing A minatrix when they were WC's for $20 from over seas. Thing is they were represented as CB. I was told 'Bring them in to Miami and they will probably rubber stamp them, Try Ohare and Ofr. Kirkby knows his Stuff and will scoop em up. They being 'obvious WC's from a CLOSED COUNTRY'. To paraphrase.
And since Aussie has STRICT regulations on exporting wildlife..
I quote the Lacey Act:
The Act makes it illegal to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire or purchase fish, wildlife or plants taken, possessed, transported or sold in violation of a federal law, treaty, regulation or Indian tribal law. It also is illegal for a person to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire or purchase in interstate or foreign commerce: fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported or sold in violation of a state law, state regulation or foreign law; plants taken, possessed, transported or sold in violation of a state law or regulation. The Act also makes it illegal to possess within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.: fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported or sold in violation of a state law, state regulation, foreign law or Indian tribal law; plants taken, possessed, transported or sold in violation of a state law or regulation.

(Go look up Steve Nunn's thread about Trying to export Aussie T's)
 

buthus

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Yes, you guys are correct. Australia has strict laws against exporting their wildlife. I was not assuming that the spider was being shipped directly from down under. I should have been more specific. ;)


edit:
On that subject... I hope that they are relaxing that policy a bit. I have been trying to get someone to send me some Redbacks, but it is difficult. It is spider heaven down there and here we are ...drooling.
 
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Tony

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I imagine a relative would have no problem 'dropping them in the mail'...I never asked...How many widows do They have? We have a few here, and plenty of other things...I would be more jealous of South America..;)
 

Steve Nunn

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Hi,
It IS illegal to receive funnel-webs ANYWHERE in the world, to receive them simply breaks the I.A.T.A. rules, those are in place internationally and not just applicable to a certain country. They are the international shipping laws and are in place to firstly protect any wildlife for safe travel and secondly, to avoid deaths to transport personel.

So, you get them, you are breaking the law.

Secondly, there are several species of mygales from the US that have been sold as A.robustus, this has been going on for a while now, I'm yet to see my first true Aussie funnel-web overseas. Everything I've seen so far are actually from a different mygale family, not even hexathelids!

So, in reality you are probably getting ripped off with a local US mygale that's black and looks similar. You may get the real deal, but I would bet my left ..... that this spider won't be a funnel-web at all.

Get an image of the spider, they are fairly easy to pick in images....

On another note, I'm annoyed, my Hadronyche valida (a real FW;)) female that was supposed to be gravid has just moulted :( So, unforunately, no baby killers running round my home this year ;)

Honestly, you'd get more enjoyment buying a big blue theraphosid, you NEVER, and I mean NEVER, see the FW's in captivity........

Cheers,
Steve
 

buthus

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Hi,
It IS illegal to receive funnel-webs ANYWHERE in the world, to receive them simply breaks the I.A.T.A. rules, those are in place internationally and not just applicable to a certain country. They are the international shipping laws and are in place to firstly protect any wildlife for safe travel and secondly, to avoid deaths to transport personel.
Interesting. But, I cannot find info regarding this. Reading what i could find on IATA rules ...Title 18 of the Lacey Act...
The injurious wildlife provisions of the Lacey Act under Title 18 restrict the importation and interstate transportation of wildlife deemed “injurious” or potentially injurious to human beings, to the interests of agriculture, horticulture, and forestry, or to wildlife or wildlife resources of the United States. The statute only applies to wild mammals, birds, fish, amphibians, reptiles, mollusks, and crustaceans. The Service cannot regulate insects, spiders, plants, or other organisms under the injurious wildlife provisions of the Lacey Act.
 

Steve Nunn

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Interesting. But, I cannot find info regarding this.
Yes, do you have copies of the IATA rules and regulations? For example, can you tell me what regulation/s tarantulas travel under according to the IATA from country to country???

If you don't subscribe to receive IATA info, it is impossible to obtain it, unless you have a handy dandy import/export agent with copies of IATA regulations and updates.

I'm guessing you surfed the net to find out about IATA regualtions, which is why you couldn't find the info ;)

In addition, this from the Lacey Act: Interstate or foreign commerce in fish and wildlife taken or possessed in violation of foreign law also is illegal.

So, in fact this is violating that law too.

Cheers,
Steve
 

Sheri

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Honestly, you'd get more enjoyment buying a big blue theraphosid, you NEVER, and I mean NEVER, see the FW's in captivity........

Cheers,
Steve
I dunno... I've bought some large blue theraposids before.

And it was enjoyable.

But I'd prefer a non-blue Aussie FW any day of the week.

(It's like comparing Brad Pitt to Worf. I'm gonna go with hardcore everytime. ;) )
 

Venom

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Steve,

I know any aussie f-web is illegal to export, but there are places that have them legally--labs, museums, zoos etc. I think we need to establish where this fellow is getting the f-web---who his source is---before we tell him that it is *definitely* illegal. I'm not sure why a zoo would be selling this species to an individual, but there is at least a remote chance that the channel is legal, right?


Mikey,

As for advisable, well, from what I've read ( subject to correction by Steve ) they are basically confined to their webs as far as climbing ability goes, so if you could keep their webbing several inches below the top rim of the tank ( perhaps by using a 4" vaseline smear ) you could keep it escape-proof. They are quick within their webs, but if you maintain the same "hands never enter the cage" attitude as for a Leirus or Androctonus, then concievably you should be able to keep this fairly safely. You still need to decide if you want to run the risk of failure / accidents with this species, as you aren't going to have antivenom available. Personally, I doubt I would take that risk. (although I would LOVE to keep a Missulena!! )
 

lucanidae

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Any legal export of a funnel web will almost certainly require that the person exporting them legally would have to sign a form saying they will not sell it or any possible offspring.

This is what happens with all the Australian species we work with in the lab.
 

Galadriel

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If it is indeed a FW, I would have serious doubts it's coming directly from a zoo or lab. There is a much higher probablility a FW showed up gravid to said zoo or lab and your friendly neighborhood lab tech, hurting for a little money, grabbed a couple offspring to sell.
The vast majority of Aussie herp species in the US were originally smuggled in, via Japan and Germany. The captive bred offspring of those animals on US soil are totally legal and most are in no way regulated. Bearded dragons and black headed pythons are good examples, though they lack the obvious: venom. It's exactly the same as children of illegal immigrants being born on American soil.
I would imagine something as toxic as a Sydney Funnel Web would be prone to fall under city, county and state venomous laws, once it was dicovered to be kept in private collections, especially since it's an exotic.
I, too, would have to have serious doubts the animal in question really IS a sydney funnel web, however. To avoid any questions or problems, leave it alone. I'll send you a nice Orange Ball of Terror who believes he's a trapdoor spider instead =)
 

Steve Nunn

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Any legal export of a funnel web will almost certainly require that the person exporting them legally would have to sign a form saying they will not sell it or any possible offspring.

This is what happens with all the Australian species we work with in the lab.
Hi,
Exactly. They do get out of the country, albeit very rarely to zoo's and labs, however the transport is higly restricted and can only be done under very tight circumstances. The commercial trade in any shape or form does not fit for this species. If the labs are done with the material, I think you'll find most have to actually destroy the animals and show evidence they have, or sign them over to a zoo or similar insititution and keep records on hand of such a transaction.

The Australian govt would not send out any more research material to any lab that sold off the specimens to general public, that just would not be taken lightly. The labs that work with this material all know this and would never jeopardise thier reputation with such a silly move, after all the material enters the country under the strictest of regulations and remains protected under Australian law. International shipping of live animals is a funny thing, if the live animals are experimental or non-commercial, then all sorts of complications arise that are not easy to overcome. This is because often the animals used are wild caught and not captive bred. In that regard the labs often find it harder to obtain legitmate material then does your average pet store.

Cheers,
Steve
 

Crotalus

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How did P irminia got out of Venezuela? Smuggled. How does Poecilothera in most cases get out of India/Sri Lanka? Smuggled. B baumgarteni? Take a wild guess.
I dont see any outraged posts about this...
Only when it comes to aussie animals people seem to have other standards then they had before.
There are a tiny number of funnel webs outside Australia, but there are alot of so called australian funnel webs too.
 
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