Are Tarantulas intelligent?

Mina

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Are tarantulas intelligent? Do they act only on instinct? Can they make choices? Have moods? Recognize the people who care for them? What do you think? We had this discussion at my job yesterday and most people who don't own tarantulas said that they have no intelligence or awareness of their surroundings. Now I would like to know what the "spider people" think.
 

Windchaser

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Moderator's note:

As this topic comes up on a fairly regular basis and there are a ton of discussions (some rather heated) on the topic already, I will put a preemptive warning out there that this thread will be closed very quickly if it starts showing any signs of spiraling out of control and getting too heated.
 

strat321

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as windchaser notes, this could quickly spiral out in many directions.

a good place to start would be rainer's book on spiders. the section on behavior and learning is rather interesting.
as an example: spiders can 'learn' about location of prey items, they can work around problems with web building.
definitions of learning need to be layed out...

good luck
 

Hedorah99

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I'll state my belief. Most insects and arachnids have very simplistic brains that operate mainly on instinct. A lot of the the characteristics you have described are pretty much anthropocentric. I don't think any T will recognize you as it's "master" per se. Do a search on "How many people cuddle with their T's?" and you will see both sides of the debate and why Windchaser has already warned this thread. But basically, if you are looking for the qualities you have described, get a cat or dog. Tommy Agosta from 8 Legs Plus put it best. tarantulas are a lot like aquarium fish, cool to look at but you probably shouldn't handle them. (I am paraphrasing of course)
 

Stefan-V

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Tarantulas don't think, they don't recognize you as a person. It is said that they don't have good vision, in fact that they can only see a few inches.
In my opinion they only act in instinct, stimuli and routine. I have heard that some people claim that the decision-making is proof of the T' acting more than on stimulants and instinct, but for me thats just a theory.
Sure, some T's will come out of their hide when you open the lid and you think: "wow, he recognizes me and wants to give me a hug" But this is most likely not the case.


Stefan-V
 

Mina

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Oh I know what I think. I just wondered what everyone else thinks. As I said it was started by a discussion at work yesterday. I don't try to cuddle my T's, I only handle them rarely and that usually in the course of caring for them. The general thought was that they are bugs and bugs are stupid. I wanted to know what other people thought.
 

Hedorah99

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Mina said:
Oh I know what I think. I just wondered what everyone else thinks. As I said it was started by a discussion at work yesterday. I don't try to cuddle my T's, I only handle them rarely and that usually in the course of caring for them. The general thought was that they are bugs and bugs are stupid. I wanted to know what other people thought.

Stupid i s a harsh word. Instinctual is a better choice. Insect and arachnids do nothing that is not absolutuely necessary for them to live and perpetuate. Stupid animals generally don't make it very far via evolution. :D
 

Pennywise

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Tarantulas

Snakes, lizards are creatures with millions years of programmed instinct
dealing with their Survival, Predation, Mating and other necessary
actions associated with successful continuation of their own species.
They are in fact Amazing animals, but they lack the ability to think,
decide, improvise etc.. In a way thinking is quite unnecessary for them.
 

rwfoss

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My two penny's...

I spoke with a very knowlegable tarantula hobbyist/dealer yesterday. He recalled a story of a very docile A. versicolor that he used to handle quite often. He never had a problem with this particular spider. Then the spider was bred and produced an egg sac. After this guy removed the versicolor's egg sac, she became aggressive. Even though that was over a year ago, the spider will immediately begin biting when someone attempts to hold her.

I'm not "voting" either way on the intelligence of T's, but I found this story to be interesting.

Rick
 

bonesmama

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They are definately aware of thier surroundings, but with the brains they have I don't believe they have "intelligence"- rather than instinct. They are smart enough to ambush prey and build homes, but again-is it intelligence or instinct?
 

Scorpendra

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unless i'm mistaken, i remember reading that Ts are more 'intelligent' than most other inverts. but as everyone else said, invert intelligence and mammal intelligence are complete parrallels.
 

Nate

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Hedorah99 said:
Stupid animals generally don't make it very far via evolution. :D
Yea, humans are the only ones that further "stupid" to breed. {D
 

ancientscout

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Tarantulas are stupid?

Mina, simply put..tarantulas could not be too stupid. They have been around unchanged for some 350,000,000 years.
Ancientscout
 

Merfolk

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Shure, you don't expect a T to come at you cheerfully with your slippers when you're back from work!!

I read that they are second only to octopusses when it comes to 'intelligence' and they are a few accounts of T's piling objects to reach something, returning on owner's hand when transferred onto another person, doing specific task.... nothing very scientific and mesurable... Like said above, they don't see or hear well, so even if they had the potential to be intelligent, they could never develop any skill from, like, watching an older animal or gathering datas from something they can't touch.. Same for taming, you can't really communicate with it anyway (some tryied drumming along but were soon unmasked impostors!!!) so I agree with forsaking the idea of training them.

I don't agree either on the fact that they are pure instinct. When behavior vary a lot between individuals in a same specie, and frequent handlers tell that they actually could have it used to them, it could be seen as some form of intelligence, but still limited. Portia spiders can remember the body language of prey insects and imitate it perfectly, and their skills doing so increases with age. But again, a strategy that is applied equaly by most individuals of a specy and changes very little over generations doesn't qualify as intelligence.

So, if your animal displays any behavior that looks totaly uninstinctive, you could be proud for it's probably a 8-legged Einstein, but still dumb compared to 90% of warm blooded animals (hamsters and forest hens are far LESS intelligent than T'S :p )
 

Brian S

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I have a few spiders that come out of their retreats when I open the lid at feeding time. I am not sure that this is a "learned" thing or not. I have heard/read somewhere that tarantulas have large brains as far as inverts go. Obviously most (and perhaps all) of their actions are based on instinct alone but I still cant help but wonder if they are capable of learning a few simple things. We may never know.
 

stubby8th

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Interesting little guys!

There arn't enough threads on this subject, right? Well, why not . . .

One who has kept, raised, observed, traded and collected tarantulas as I have done for many years gains a real sense for these animals. I have also had the oportunity to observe and interact with our native wild tarantulas, Aphonopema hentzi for a number seasons as well. Yes, one gains a knowlege of proper care of these animals, but also an ability to identify various moods and body language, as many will attest to. Now I am not pretending to bestow true problem solving intelligence here, but I am saying that those who claim to know for a fact that these animals are blind, dumb and instinctual automatans may not be giving enough credit.

Some seem 'brighter' (or at least more interested in interacting) than others. For example, I have a B. smithy who is able to catch tossed crix in midair, a feat requiring some decent vision and coordination, not to mention the ability to quickly differentiate between feeding time and being picked up.
My L. difficilus, who is normally very nervous and flicky, decided that she was going to walk up the side of her container and into my offered, open hand for no appearent reason, totally out of character. Mood? You be the judge.
Occasionally a wild A. hentzi, after being coaxed out of her hole will actually climb right into an offered hand. I had one, one time, emerge from her hole and tap my offered hand and sit there staring at me as if waiting for a resonse. When I didn't move it, she slowly went back down. The 'message' I came away with at the time was 'I don't see you as a threat, but I don't want to be disturbed'. Is it possible that this was simply some ingraned, instinctual auto response? Sure, but it hasn't happened before or since quite that way.

I'm sure I can think of more examples of what I'm talking about, but this was just off the top of my head.
 

Scolopeon

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A species of spider I have found to be quite intellegent are the jumping spiders, they judge distance and use their eyes like telecopes and home in on prey, certainly clever for an invert. Still they are not really 'intellegent' in the sense we think.

They'll calculate how to get to their prey without it seeing them, and turn their body round scanning their environment.

I personally find these spiders really interesting especially the portia generea ,
who hunts other spiders for its prey, she'll look at another spiders web (such as an orb) and will find a route to latch on to it and kill the spider sitting on the hub.

on flat spider webs she knows how to trip the wires so it runs out and then gets grabbed by her. She'll play games with her prey and move silently over the web until she gets her feast.

I saw a documentery about spiders, and was quite amazed at this species.

I was certainly surprised by how this spider catches its food.

The Portia Spider
 
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G_Wright

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rwfoss said:
My two penny's...

I spoke with a very knowlegable tarantula hobbyist/dealer yesterday. He recalled a story of a very docile A. versicolor that he used to handle quite often. He never had a problem with this particular spider. Then the spider was bred and produced an egg sac. After this guy removed the versicolor's egg sac, she became aggressive. Even though that was over a year ago, the spider will immediately begin biting when someone attempts to hold her.

I'm not "voting" either way on the intelligence of T's, but I found this story to be interesting.

Rick

Any creature weather it be bug or mammel will not take kindly to have it's babies taken from it
 

Mina

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Okay guy and gals, clarification time. I did not say tarantulas are stupid. I said the general thought of the non tarantula people I talked to is that they are. I do not think they are. I'm not sure what their level of intelligence is and I'm sure you just can't compare intelligence in a tarantula and a dog. Yes, my tarantulas will start moving toward the end of the tank they generally get fed in when the top opens. But in the same way, my fish all swim to the top of the tank when I turn on the light. I love my tarantulas, I see them do things that are different from each other and I may be giving them credit for personality that they don't have, I'm not sure. It really does not matter, if someone came up with proof that they have no intelligence and are not capable of having personality, I would still love them anyway. I wanted to know what other people think. I really appreciate all the responses.
 
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