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Aphonopelma seemanni Emergency

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by Ethan Luebke, May 13, 2019.

  1. Ethan Luebke

    Ethan Luebke Arachnopeon

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    My costs rican zebra tarantula seems to be ill, let me start from the beginning I got her last year July And she always was in her hide after housing her.

    She just stayed there the whole time after 3 months with her she finally took down her first cricket and didn’t eat anymore after that. So about September 1st of 2018 was her last meal. She ended up molting in January of 2019 and since molting she doesn’t eat.

    She is my most docile tarantula she will let crickets just hang out on top of her and she lets me do what o want with her, luckily I refuse to handle unless an emergency well I just thought you know she must be ok because after she molted she never was in her hide and she was drinking out her water dish 3-4 times a day and she loved to chill around her water dish not from being dehydrated almost like her instinct was to stay near water source.

    well recently may 2019 she started walking around dis oriented and always on her first knuckle like her tips of her feet r on the starting stages of death curl and I’ve learned a lot about this stuff in a short time so my first instinct was she was ill or dehydrated but didn’t know how that could be if she is drinking so much water.

    Anyways she don’t use her water dish no more and I put an extra one in there for her just Incase she only drinks out the dirt so I’ve been watering the dirt heavy she will drink it like she never had water and her legs get normal then they go back and I repeat the process 2-3 times a day she seemed to be much better today still walking around disoriented but on her toes again all day long.

    She has me worried though I feel as if she isn’t eating for a reason because maybe she molted without some of the parts she needed to digest food I haven’t found any poop on her enclosure wall which I know is somewhat normal if they hardly eat and shit into the dirt but needless to say she is cb and

    I just want to figure out what’s wrong with her she is my sweetest tarantula and the only one I’m not nervous at all to do things with my hand in her enclosure and I dont want her to pass but any suggestions ideas of what’s causing it or anything would be greatly appreciated thank you!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2019 at 11:26 PM
  2. Arachnophoric

    Arachnophoric Arachnobaron Active Member

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    Please post current images of the tarantula and the entire enclosure to start. That's usually the easiest way to see what could be causing your problems.

    Based on your description, the constant drinking leads me to believe you're keeping the enclosure far too dry for this species, as it's not really normal to witness your T drinking multiple times a day. The issue also sounds to have started after a molt, when moisture would be most critical to her. A simple picture could clear that up quickly.
     
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  3. VanessaS

    VanessaS Grammostola Groupie Arachnosupporter

    While it is possible for the sucking stomach not to be shed properly, it is very uncommon. If you have the exuvia from her last moult, you can likely still check if her stomach is there. It bothers me that she hasn't eaten, but she wouldn't be drinking if her stomach didn't shed either. Could the water be wicking out on it's own and not being drank at all?
    You need to post some photos, please. And try to dig out her last moult.
     
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  4. Ethan Luebke

    Ethan Luebke Arachnopeon

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    Here in a few hours I will post pictures of her and the enclosure as right now everyone’s asleep and it’s dark but until then here is a rough idea it’s a medium critter keeper with a glow In the dark water dish that she has loved from the week after she molted and also a water bottle cap as extra as I have turned her enclosure into somewhat of an icu, understanding that I don’t want to stress her by moving her into a specific place for Icu.

    she is on about 6 inches of Eko earth and Pete... before her molt she used her hide and made a borrow inside of it but since molting only goes in hide if she gets frightened and makes her normal area by her glow dish.. I no she is drinking because I’m watching her stick her butt in the air and chow down on it as well as sink her fangs in the dirt and suck water out I nonits rare but my line of work has me with these guys and others very often..

    the sucking stomach was what I was trying to say in my original post so thank you for reminding me of what it’s called and that’s what I’m leaning towards but would she be able to drink water without it because she does that plenty?

    Oh back to her enclosure description she is now with about 75% of her enclosure moist as she has been sick and I wanted to simulate an icu but before that I over flow her water dish about every other day heavily but the days I don’t I still top off her water. So until the pictures are posted maybe that will give u an idea.

    I don’t want to lose her as she is my most docile t and my go to t whenever anyone freaks out or calls them scary she is the sweetest one truly has a personality and a way about her and all tho it’s rare to see them drink I have seen most of my tsdrink but for her to be doing it daily since molting didn’t really have me worried as she was going fine her not eating since moulting is what worried me but knowing ts can go a long time I wasn’t worried about it until now when she is acting like this she still is pretty fresh since it’s only been 4 months since her molt.

    unfortunately I don’t have her old molt but I do recall what it looks like very well if anyone has examples of a missing sucking stomach.. also I appreciate both responses oh 1 more thing I have about 40 plus and growing in my t collections and 2 other seemani within a foot of her enclosure all others are thriving in their conditions all seemani are kept the same basically and she is now going through this.

    I understand it could be parasites possible or even illness she is only about 31/2 inches so I wouldn’t say old age and has her legs stripes so it’s not a mature male also don’t have bulbs or hooks but still this is very puzzleing and all brain power involved could help tremendous things I could do to help she is fighting to live I no that she hasn’t went into a death curl but just like caught her right when the stages start and like I said today was her first day in almost a week she was standing on all toes again instead of standing on her first knuckle with her toes curled under so I felt better about that.

    I thought possibly she could just simply have a tarantula type flu u no a typical sickness they either die from or recover from and because sickness cause most other things dehydration it would do the same to her and I just am smart enough to constantly know my ts and care for every living thing I have for myself in my home, it’s all family.

    So I don’t want her to go I will except the fate as I no this is a pet you really can’t do a lot for when it comes to things like this but maybe someone ran into this before or someone had a t without sucking stomach to no it’s behavior anyways thanks guys so much keep me posted.

    I’ll post pics soon and thank u for reminding me of the sucking stomach as I hope it’s not that but her not eating makes me think that and she could be losing energy because she hasn’t ate since molt and what they get in water from their food she don’t eat so I see her drink to make up for the lack of food.. not sure time will tell but hope this helps for your next responses

    Ok Sorry Vanessa I read urs wrong ok yah she is drinking so it’s not sucking stomach unless they can drink without it then yes she for sure is drinking, but not eating since her molt is really puzzleing to me to as all my ts eat and eat heavy within 4 weeks of molting due to their fast prior to molting. But no i don’t have her molt as I sexed it and through it out unfortunately but I’m hoping it’s just a bug she gets passed and today was the start of that recovery but her desperate need for water and always drink plenty of it on top of not eating at all I’m just not sure

    There I inserted images here is an update she seems like she is in a death curl but she tries walking and literally from the last joint on their leg where right about the toe when she lifts her legs that part of her leg on a couple are completely limp like as if it’s just rubber and she knows it she keeps messing with them idk what to do.

    I wish this place was more active but maybe I have it to wet now idk I never thought me an arachaphobe from 2 years ago and the prior 24 years would now feel empathy towards a tarantula of please help ASAP as she still has a lot of life in her but then again idk if she will make it through another night or 2

    I set that water bottle cap right Infront of her and she now is putting her foot in it and sucking water off her foot also at the same time that she has been doing that for about 30 her back legs are normal it’s just those front 4-6 that r awkward.

    I also was thinking is it possible for her to not have her sucking stomach but becyhause she needs a drink very badly she keeps trying to but she isn’t able to suck any of it down?

    I feel as if she has put a dent in her water dish before but now that I think about it she has never emptied her water dish or got it half way low but I still think she is I mean she does seem like she does have drinks anyways. I hope she pulls thru with this one also I mentioned how the tip of a couple of her legs were really rubbery so idk
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2019 at 11:28 PM
  5. DixonCyder

    DixonCyder Arachnopeon Active Member

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    That substrate looks really muddy. You can't really do that, without a plant, or even a drainage layer, under the substrate. I'm no expert, but I would venture to say that your spider might be sick. And your cage, may have mold. Judging from the amount of standing water.
    I've included some photos. This only my temporary confinement. I will be moving this spider into something larger soon.
    .... Your humidity must be through the roof in there.
     

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  6. VanessaS

    VanessaS Grammostola Groupie Arachnosupporter

    If that is mould around the water dish, you really need to get rid of it. Just dig it out with a spoon. Also, she needs deeper substrate. However, neither of those things could have any bearing on the issue if she is not eating or drinking.
    You could not have seen her sucking stomach without some sort of magnification tool. Even in an adult, it is too small to confirm that it was shed properly with the naked eye. In most cases, where the stomach was not shed properly, the tarantula has died. There is nothing that you can do about it. However, there have been a couple of cases that I have read where the tarantula has moulted and the sucking stomach issue was corrected. You need to keep her in a moist, not soaking wet, enclosure to ensure that she does not dehydrate without being able to drink and hope that she can moult again. You can achieve that by adding a couple of water dishes and ensuring that they are full all the time and overflowing them so that part of the enclosure is kept damp. Of course, that is assuming that it is an issue with her sucking stomach.
     
  7. Ethan Luebke

    Ethan Luebke Arachnopeon

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    I set that water bottle cap right Infront of her and she now is putting her foot in it and sucking water off her foot also at the same time that she has been doing that for about 30 her back legs are normal it’s just those front 4-6 that r awkward.

    I also was thinking is it possible for her to not have her sucking stomach but becyhause she needs a drink very badly she keeps trying to but she isn’t able to suck any of it down?

    I feel as if she has put a dent in her water dish before but now that I think about it she has never emptied her water dish or got it half way low but I still think she is I mean she does seem like she does have drinks anyways.

    I hope she pulls thru with this one also I mentioned how the tip of a couple of her legs were really rubbery from where the point is on it up to the first knuckle she will lift them almost like their asleep or something idk I really could use advice I was thinking maybe it’s to wet or she sat in her water wit a foot to long or idk but she still is drinking constantly

    I don’t get it what could make a t be this sickly for days still active but in a half death curl and constantly drinking out of both water dishes... idk

    Yes thank u for the responses I feel as if maybe you guys both made some good points since she went into this state I’ve wanted her to stay hydrated so therefore giving her so much water it’s muddy, she is on 5 inches of substrate and she burrowed until this point, but she hasn’t had a rehouse in almost 11 months which makes me think mold or mold spores in or around her water dish could def be something and so tonight I will be rehouseingher but keeping enclosure just giving her new everything and then also I will continue keeping 2 water dishes in there with her as I do with any t that falls I’ll which has only happened to 1 sling and now her and she does drink out of both.

    also I will wet the substrate but rather then wetting all substrate I will keep some of it dry also half and half id say until she js better then just around water dishes.

    On the other hand all though I was leaning toward her sucking stomach because she hadn’t Eaton in almost 6 months since she molted and that’s unheard of for a t to not eat at least once following a molt but she wouldn’t be able to drink without havin a sucking stomach either isn’t that correct so if that’s true she is drinking. But if they can drink with or without the sucking stomach then I would still lean towards that.

    That being said thank u guys so much for the helpful tips she is still holding on fighting for life staying drinking or resting so I hope that she can make it as I said before she is the calmest tarelantula I’ve ever owned or seen and I’d really like her to make it. Rehouse commences in 65 min with an update on if it not being so muddy or not has helped. Thanks guys keep the info coming as anything could help

    PArdon me Guys snd girls also I have gotten good tips from every comment so I could better life for my ts so thank you guys and keep it coming
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2019 at 11:32 PM
  8. EtienneN

    EtienneN Arachnonovelist Arachnosupporter

    Odd suggestion, but what do you think about offering prekilled prey or alternatively mashing up a purée of crickets and water and see if she’ll drink/eat that.
     
  9. Ethan Luebke

    Ethan Luebke Arachnopeon

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    I did try prekilled even cut the jumping legs off so cricket was way slower and awkward and she did stand over the pre killed cricket with her foot on it but never did nothing I left food in for a week.

    I even tried small crickets thinking maybe she just wants an easy kill but nothing, the food bowl in there purée idea I have considered but not until now did I think she would take to it so much but maybe once I give her fresh sub I will give her 2 waterdishes and a food dish purée and maybe she will think it’s water drink and therefore give herself the energy she is lacking I’m sure.

    Thanks for the reminder on that that could def help depleated energy I no beforeher molt the 1 cricket she ate she took down hard but since molting hasn’t been interested her standing over the dead cricket did get me curious though that maybe she didn’t find it until it wasn’t fresh enough but possibly would of took if she found it sooner..

    thanks again until she passes or gets back to normal I hope you guys can stick with me on this again this is an emotional attachement I was an arachnophobia type for my whole life I got one t to help and now I have 40 plus this girl is the one that proved to me that they don’t care to bite us at all and just want a peaceful non stressful life like us all I’d hate to see her not make it
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2019 at 11:33 PM
  10. Arachnophoric

    Arachnophoric Arachnobaron Active Member

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    I'm finding it hard to read your posts, Ethan, no offense, but the huge wall of text with very little use of punctuation is very difficult for me to parse through. So I apologize if you already mentioned this, but how big is your T? Was she that big when you got her? Where did you get her from?

    Besides the sopping wet substrate, which if I read correctly I understand to have been a recent development in response to her odd behavior, i'm not seeing anything glaring that could be causing this behavior if she's been consistently ingesting liquids. It's difficult to really tell with her scrunched up like that, but her abdomen doesn't look worryingly small either, so I find myself doubtful that she's starving.

    Is there any possibility this could just be an old female that's on her last leg?
     
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  11. Anoplogaster

    Anoplogaster Arachnodemon Active Member

    I also suspect this possibility. We often forget that all tarantulas eventually die of old age.
     
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  12. Teal

    Teal Arachnoemperor Old Timer

    ICUs are a great way to kill spiders, as is turning her enclosure into a mud pit.

    Have you checked to see if her fangs molted properly?

    That isn't true at all. You can easily see the sucking stomach on molts 2-3", if not smaller. It is either there or it isn't... it wouldn't be partially molted.
     
  13. Ethan Luebke

    Ethan Luebke Arachnopeon

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    Lol some of the sarcastic remarks here crack me up I def don’t forget they die. Infact I actually encouraged their death for many years when I was afraid of them.

    On the contrary she is about 31/2 inches which if I’m correct that’s a small female to be old and mature correct? Not saying it isn’t possible I believe it could be possible she is fully mature and old but when I had gotten her she was just under 31/2 inches then she ate one time and then she went into pre molt and molted and hasn’t Eaten since going into premolt.

    I have another seemani female right bedside her who is almost 5 inches and not even 10 years old so I’m just having a hard time of it is her age excepting that she is a dwarf to the avg size. Her abdomen has gotten a lot smaller since her molt.

    Yes the wetness was a recent development as I wanted to make sure no matter where she rested she had water near by I was constantly making sure of that so I went from encouraging their death to caring about their life and well being.

    She now has fresh substrate and I got it all cleaned out and back to a good healthy way for her and she has gotten a little more comfortable but maybe she is just going to pass... poor girl I finally found a tarantula I was no longer frightened of and in less then a year she has to pass.

    She is still in her current state just looks to be more comfortable with the proper conditions in her enclosure.

    I don’t have her molt and im not sure I’m comfortable to flip over yet as I am somewhat afraid still to be quite honest I’m very skittish when they move fast I move fast lol.

    I do no that if their drinking that would mean she has her sucking stomach right? Or can they drink without it? And also she is not in a full death curl but one of her front legs she had then toe part folded under and was resting her weight on all toes but on that one knuckle almost like she can’t support her own weight. She just recently stood on the toe again today for a while makin me hopeful she is getting better but how do ts act when they are Infact in their final leg of life?

    Extra thirsty by chance? Also she hasn’t eaten since molting is that normal for old ts? Thanks again to all who responded it means more then you realize and believe it or not I’ve used each suggestion I’ve been told on here so far so I hope u guys no if she passes it’s on y’all.... lol jk jk no what I meant to say is if it wasn’t for you guys and some advice I would be totally lost with her behaviorand feeling like I don’t no how to care for them but all though I’m scared I have obts and pokes and king baboons and a huge Goliath bird eater burgundy so my collection has pushed me to a better place with my fear if it’s necessary I will handleher and take a picture unless one has one and can post I will compare the 2.

    Other then that I will keep you all posted and post more pictures of her recent set up tonight. Thanks guys... and I hope my punctuation was better understood for you here in this message lol.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2019 at 11:36 PM
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  14. cold blood

    cold blood Moderator Staff Member

    Sounds like a sucking stomach issue....A t will not be able to drink with this issue. I can also tell you that no tarantula will be drinking three to four times a day ever under any circumstances.

    I see this instead, as a tarantula dying for water that can't get to it despite sticking its face into it repeatedly. if it was drinking as often as you think it is, it wouldn't be curling and its abdomen wouldn't be shrinking.

    It's absolutely not an old-age thing, at this size it would be a juvenile or barely mature if it's female. If it's male on the other hand it likely wouldn't be mature, although that certainly could be a possibility as some do mature smaller. We will only know this by looking at the underside of the pedipalps.
     
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  15. Arachnophoric

    Arachnophoric Arachnobaron Active Member

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    Nobody was being sarcastic here, and we weren't saying you forget that they die of old age. Sometimes people come on here with a dying T and everyone is on a goose chase trying to figure out what's being done wrong, when it turns out it's just the circle of life taking its course. However, based on the information you just added, I no longer believe that to be the case here.

    I had thought that myself for a second, but the coloration of the T looks wrong for a MM A. seemanni.

    Definitely not a MF at that size so there goes the old age theory, so I'll have to agree that it sounds like a sucking stomach issue.

    Why would you need to do that?? You wouldn't be able to see externally if she hadn't properly molted her sucking stomach - it's literally the internal lining of the equivalent to your tarantulas esophagus.

    If she didn't, the old molt would more or less be obstructing her from ingesting anything. Are you sure that she's actually managing to drink anything when she tries? Do you see a difference in the water levels before/after she drinks? Like coldblood said, she may be trying desperately to drink water but not actually able to do so.

    Again, I don't see any reason that would be necessary.

    Still a huge wall of text, but yes, much easier to read through this time. ;)
     
  16. cold blood

    cold blood Moderator Staff Member

    I did fix the wall of text to make it more readable:)
     
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