Another heating debate

[Whitelightning777]

Heat mats under the enclosure are especially dangerous. Removing or unplugging that is correct. If the material that the enclosure is made of is safe for heat mats, you can safely do a hot side / cold side by affixing it to the side. You'll need a voltage limiting switch and a thermometer that you can point at something to get the temperature.

This is, of course, entirely optional.

I do this with my Klugi and the growth and vitality are incredible.

The correct temps are heat mat external surface 90 degrees 93 maximum. Hot side interior wall, other side of heat mat just below the lid, max safe temp in that corner 88, interior surface 85 86 degrees. Cold side, anywhere between room temperature and the hot side.

Substrate temps should be equal to or cooler then anything above it. Interior decorations and objects, max safe temp 85 with no hot spots underneath them.

The water dish needs to be checked twice daily and be full at all times. Zoo med makes a digital point and shoot thermometer.

Use a voltage controller to set the temps in the heat mat itself. This can be to much effort for some people but it can be done safely.

I'm whitelightning777 on YouTube and I have a detailed video on how to do it. I'm probably not the first to figure it out but I solved the safety issue.

If you do it my way, your spiders will be completely safe. I solved the problem 100%.

Yes, if you do it wrong, the results can be fatal!!

 

[Whitelightning777]

That's not the case. I heat multiple cages individually and have had great results without having to cope with one or more rooms at 80 degrees.

If you do it exactly as I've said, avoiding hot spots etc, your animals will be perfectly safe assuming that the temperature itself is safe.

One important advantage of my method is that the spider can choose it's

While I didn't really get into all the experiments with feeders and 3 wild caught wild spiders etc, I solved the problem.

There are other advantages as well. When a spider hasn't eaten for a while, it'll go to the cold side. When they are digesting food, they go to the hot side.

If you're a breeder, you can keep a mature male enclosure unheated in the same room as a female lagging behind in growth.

While this is great for small collections, it also allows you to keep creatures with different temp requirements only a few feet apart.

Having a cage in a cage would probably be ok for burrowing species but not for arboreal tarantulas which require good ventilation. Avics would be a prime example.

It's not that confusing. If you can change a light bulb and make a cup of tea, you can do this. If you can program a DVR, you're overqualified!!

I'm a bit of a gear head and certain types of machines present similar problems.

Heat fatalities fall into 3 catagories for spiders and scorpions, heat source below the animal, direct contact with heat source far above the average temperature causing an extreme hot spot within the enclosure and from dehydration by using to small of a water dish or not checking it twice a day.

Avoid those and you'll be just fine. I watched dozens of videos with the horror stories of failures related to heating. Without exception, those 3 issues occurred. I confirmed that with testing on crickets, feeder roaches and lastly 3 wolf spiders wild caught. By the way, those were unharmed.

Little did I realize that I'd soon have scorplings on the way!! Observing those further increased my confidence. Anyway, everything you need to know is in the video.

You have to remember one other thing. Humans don't do so well at 80 to 85 degrees. Sweat damages clothing, mattresses, bed sheets and makes food go bad if you leave it out in the open in such places.

Night sweats are virtually unavoidable even if you sleep in the nude and forego any blankets.

Yuck!! Gross!!

If you sleep in a hot T room like that, you'll be famous!! Everyone will smell you coming from real far away!!

Can tarantulas breed in a super heated room? Of course they can!! Can YOU breed in such a room or meet the woman of your dreams (or a guy for that matter)? I doubt it.

Is it comfortable to sit or stand in front of a cage to watch your spider if the entire room is 80 or 85? Obviously not.

The human element and our own temp and humidity requirements are at least equally important. A little fine tuning can be very beneficial.

Of course, if you do try to scale it up, it'll get real expensive and the heat will warm up the entire room anyway.

Try setting up one just like I explained. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Whitelightning777]

I never said they were, just that the option exists.

 

[Venom1080]

You love to push useless and down right confusing knowledge. Maybe some members would like you if you didnt.

 

[Whitelightning777]

That's not the case. I've had quite a few private messages and emails etc. I've never had anyone come back and say it didn't work out or caused an injury.

Remember when everyone kept spiders in sand or in vermiculite? Or when only fish tanks were used?

The technology changes all the time & people should be more open minded.

Of course, people are entitled to their own feelings but not their own facts. Put it this way, I would only have a 3 inch spider instead of at inch one of I didn't control the environment by micro managing it.

Climate control, when done right equals greater performance.

 

[Venom1080]

That's not the case. I've had quite a few private messages and emails etc. I've never had anyone come back and say it didn't work out or caused an injury.

Remember when everyone kept spiders in sand or in vermiculite? Or when only fish tanks were used?

The technology changes all the time & people should be more open minded.

Of course, people are entitled to their own feelings but not their own facts. Put it this way, I would only have a 3 inch spider instead of at inch one of I didn't control the environment by micro managing it.

Climate control, when done right equals greater performance.

Everyone does just fine without it and I've seen no good proof the hurdles you jump through do anything worthwhile to the animals.

 

[sasker]

You have to remember one other thing. Humans don't do so well at 80 to 85 degrees.

I think you have never been to Bulgaria in the middle of summer

People do great at 85 degrees. And no, it is not necessary to smell like a pig if it is warm.

 

[cold blood]

I've had quite a few private messages and emails etc.

Do these people know that you are relatively new to the hobby?

I've never had anyone come back and say it didn't work out or caused an injury.

Give it time.

The technology changes all the time & people should be more open minded.

See, that's one ironic statement. First, the "technology" you promote, is not new technology...in fact its old tech, stuff we have gotten past a long time ago as experience has proven there are much better ways to go about heating (if its even needed). It seems the one without the open mind, is the one that ignored decades of actual experience and tries to prove that the old ways were indeed better, because he thinks they are new in some way.

See, ts shouldn't have a hot spot and a cold spot, that's old reptile tech, the exact stuff that's been proven just wrong. And most aren't looking for the temps you mention, most shoot for right around that 70 degree range, because that's all that's needed. These aren't opinions, these are proven facts that were learned over decades of trial and error. The way we promote now, is vastly different than those promoted 20 or even 10 years ago, so in fact, people were/are indeed, open minded, and have already changed accordingly...for the betterment of the ts we keep.

 

[Whitelightning777]

I should've said techniques. Like I said in the video, the differences are in degrees not in kind.

I took a trip to the Baltimore zoo and asked them if they keep the inverts at room temperature. The answer was an emphatic no. The systems that they do use are major $$$$ however. Copying some of the professional techniques shouldn't be a revolutionary act.

Reptiles can be kept in some cases with mats underneath the enclosure, UV lighting, hot rocks within the enclosure which is dangerous and totally different then what I'm doing.

I've described my collection accurately. I have no reason not to. I've also clearly explained that mine is the minority opinion. That's fair isn't it?

Since people who talk to me are concerned about getting harassed on the board, confidences have to be respected.

I can say that in three cases where terrestrial tarantulas were hanging off of the sides or upside down for no reason at risk of falls, all 3 now have eliminated that behavior since the heating was done.

This was the most dramatic change.

In the other cases, appetites have almost always improved.

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This whole heat thing is strange. It's almost like someone is losing money because of what I'm doing!! Hmmmmm, gotta wonder about that.

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The thing that concerns me is that the statement that "there's no way to safely heat up tarantula cages unless you're using a space heater." is a 100% lie. The fact is that it can be done, with careful measurements and realistic expectations of course.

If individuals lie, why not say so?

In fact, the craziest thing I've seen is individuals keeping certain more venomous species that can land you in the hospital within opaque cages.

Still, I'm not flipping out over it. I mostly enjoy watching my fairly active spiders through crystal clear enclosures, preferably those built like Pershing tanks!!

 

[Whitelightning777]

Everyone does just fine without it and I've seen no good proof the hurdles you jump through do anything worthwhile to the animals.

The animals benefit in a few ways.

1. They can choose their own temperature. (Most gravitate to wherever it's 80 degrees)

2. Climbing up the walls and hanging upside down on lids is a behavior that can be virtually eliminated in terrestrial animals. Thus the fall hazard is eliminated.

3 Faster growth, higher metabolism less finicky eating.

4. Increased speed and agility during hunting behavior, better physical strength.

This T prefers 80 degrees, strongly so.

 

[Ant]

They can choose their own temperature. (Most gravitate to wherever it's 80 degrees

I think most T's will gravitate towards an area of warmer temperatures. The whole "choosing a temperature" thing as @cold blood stated, is a reptile thing.

Climbing up the walls and hanging upside down on lids is a behavior that can be virtually eliminated in terrestrial animals.

You said you had this happen with THREE tarantulas, not exactly the largest sample size to say that your statement is fact.

Thus the fall hazard is eliminated.

A properly set up terrestrial enclosure would eliminate any fall hazard anyway.

Faster growth, higher metabolism less finicky eating.

Again, what was the sample size you worked with to come to this conclusion and that your set up is superior to someone using a space heater?

Increased speed and agility during hunting behavior, better physical strength.

Back to sample sizes again, you would literally need hundreds, if not thousands of T's, some set up how you do it, some set up how normal keepers do it, to even begin proving that this is true and that your set up is more beneficial and I mean, how on earth you manage to calculate a tarantulas physical strength is beyond me.

How many T's do you have in your collection?

 

[Ungoliant]

how on earth you manage to calculate a tarantulas physical strength is beyond me.

Do You Even Lift

• Ungoliant
• Feb 18, 2018
• 2
• brazilian black tarantula bulldozer female grammostola grammostola pulchra humor juvenile juvenile female meme pulchra

Bulldozer, my juvenile female Grammostola pulchra.

 

[Whitelightning777]

Physical strength/speed is done by looking at the same spider moving at different temps.

What I did was an experiment on 3 wolf spiders to be exact. After getting them at temps of 65, 75, 85, and 95; I put them at one end of a bathtub with the drain plugged.

Using a can of compressed air and a stop watch, I startled them so that they would run around the bathtub until they stopped, one after the other. The results were obvious. In fact, the stop watch was a waste of time.

Grip strength is the same, measured after a 3 hour rest period. Using a board with fine grit sandpaper on a vertical board attached with Elmer's glue over a towel in a tote, get the spider to run up vertically. Tap the wood such that the spider falls off harmlessly into the towel. Again, the results are obvious. A vibrating electric razor can provide an incentive for them to climb up.

Try it yourself. Be sure to place the spiders into an ICU overnight and make sure you feed them a superworm or a meal worm before releasing them back into the wild.

Getting them to perform can be aggravating.

Something that vibrates and produces a sudden air current is necessary. A spray bottle with water isn't good because water itself carries a temperature and inhibits performance. You need compressed air. Get at least 3 cans of it at you local computer store.

 

[Ant]

OK I'm convinced you're just trolling now.

 

[Whitelightning777]

No, not at all!! I performed the tests. In fact it would be interesting to see if my findings can be replicated.

The clincher is that wolf spiders are native to Maryland and can survive the winter with subfreezing temperatures.

Logically, tarantulas would suffer even more impairment as temperatures decrease because they never get that cold for the most part.

Choosing an animal that is probably MORE tolerant of cold, that can deal with 100+ degree temps in the summer and 0 degrees in the winter is ideal.

BTW: at 75 they are fast, 85 is warp drive. At 95 they are fast but physically somehow less physically coordinated, almost like some meth head freaking out but not able to walk a straight line.

My folks weren't home at the time because they would question my sanity if they were.

 

[Ant]

I'll bite one final time . . .

How have we gone from you trying to convince us that heatmats are an excellent form of heating a tarantula enclosure, to you basically giving evidence of tarantulas moving quicker at higher temps . . . something no one would refute?

 

[Whitelightning777]

It's not that surprising. These guys are cold blooded. Chemical reactions in general work faster with heat. Any cold blooded animal is going to be faster at the upper end of it's range.

At 65 degrees, not one wolf spider even did one complete lap and it was more of a fast walk then a run.

At 75, they ran decently no threat displays.

At 85, extremely fast and they kept going. One of them gave a brief threat posture.

At 95, extremely fast but threw way more threat postures. They seemed somehow spastic, severely stressed more so then really justified. Of course that was the last test in the series.

Of course, in all cases above 75 they are still way faster then human reflexes.

 

[Ant]

OK.

 

[Venom1080]

Do you understand how cool a burrow is? Temps outside may be 100+ but a burrow will be much lower. They thermoregulate like that.

With colder temps, cold blooded animals slow down. They need heat. Spiders aren't much different. But they don't need 90 degrees to function well. Most people raise and breed them in the 70s, myself included. But Some species actually need a temperature drop to the 50s if you want to replicate their wild climate. Others, to the 90s.

You overcomplicate things. And assume alot.

 

[MrTwister]

I highly doubt anyone has messaged you concerned about being “harassed” on the forums. If you want to go through all the trouble to use heat mats, have at it. Just saying it’s 100% unnecessary. You have not found a solution to a problem, because the problem has never existed.