Akitas aren't dogs

[pitbulllady]

Somewhere along the line, that dog has some American Akita in him. He looks like a mini version of a pinto American Akita as it is! Of course the Southeast Asian primitive Dingo-type dogs are the ancestors of the true native Japanese breeds as well as the Carolina Dogs and other true native US breeds. In fact, the most recent DNA research has shown that the CHIHUAHUA is basically a miniature Carolina Dog, rather than a Toy breed that originated from dogs brought over from Europe, and the Xolo(those "Chupacabra dogs")are Carolina Dogs with the hairless gene mutation. You can read the results of this study here: http://www.examiner.com/article/chi...ginated-america-and-asia-new-research-reveals . This lays to rest once and for all the claim by some that the Carolina Dogs are just mutts that are descended from ordinary European-origin breeds like German Shepherds that displayed atavistic tendencies over many generations of running feral.

pitbulllady

 

[The Snark]

Admitting how slow I can be at times here... It wasn't until you pointed out to me this version of Thai dog was the akita ancestor that I even equated his looks to the akita. This make and model is somewhat unusual here but by no means unique. Add that to we are so far into the rice fields here it would be one hefty coincidence that an American pinto akita had strolled through and became this things ancestor. Without serious outlay of $$$ is there any way of determining if the akita got bred back into his lineage?
I would mention one thing. His ears usually lie back in unakita style. They perked like they are pictured every time he heard the camera beep.

Oh yes. A very unakita trait. This guy does bark. It's rare but is definitely a territorial warning. The tone and volume is about that of a large alsatian.

Just how in heck did the chihuahua get connected into this genetic soup???

PS Thanks much for that link. It is not only amazing it clearly demonstrates the Asian migration that took place. While humans get moved about and are too mobile, their canine partners go wild and remain in a given location. What is boggling my mind is the adaptation and evolution that produced the Chihuahua. Has anyone made a timeline of this?



---------- Post added 03-16-2013 at 05:37 AM ----------

I should get a Sadie update in here. Start with an overwhelming desire to strangle a certain sister in law. I got the pics of our zeedle then she got her mitts on the camera and pfut. Maybe it just likes traveling between here and Bangkok by turtle post.

Sadie is now completely boring akita. She owns the yard. The porch and carport is her throne room and royal reception hall. The humans are her mildly amusing courtiers. The back yard is about 6 inches deep in chicken feathers. During the day her sole activity is occasionally raising her head to offer some regal disdain of the world about her. At night she goes out and strolls the perimeter of her domain, sometimes making that musical moaning call.

 

[Shannen]

Oh boy your so far off, akitas are very much pack dogs. They can live in harmony with other dogs and cats. They are strong and intelligent, but not at all killing machines that don’t love humans as you implied. You might want to really get to know an Akita they just might change your life.

 

[Teal]

Oh boy your so far off, akitas are very much pack dogs. They can live in harmony with other dogs and cats. They are strong and intelligent, but not at all killing machines that don’t love humans as you implied. You might want to really get to know an Akita they just might change your life.

This thread is several years old (;
And also, Akitas are guardian dogs. They are known for intolerance of other animals and suspicion of strangers. They love THEIR people, yes. They CAN be okay around other animals... individual tolerance varies. But one should never expect an Akita to love everyone and everything.

(P.S. I adore the breed. I don't require nor expect my dogs to be friendly with other animals and I appreciate guardian breeds, so Akita temperament is just fine by me).

 

[Shannen]

This thread is several years old (;
And also, Akitas are guardian dogs. They are known for intolerance of other animals and suspicion of strangers. They love THEIR people, yes. They CAN be okay around other animals... individual tolerance varies. But one should never expect an Akita to love everyone and everything.

(P.S. I adore the breed. I don't require nor expect my dogs to be friendly with other animals and I appreciate guardian breeds, so Akita temperament is just fine by me).

I think we are on same page I adore my Akita and love his qualities he’s text book Akita

 

[Jelt110]

We've two American Akitas, 4 and 5 (3/8 related). First dogs we had that were related. Very sweet and gentle to the family, babies (next door toddlers stick thier hands through the fence and they will sniff and lick). But they kill squirrels, birds, mice, possum. Confounding-ly, when a squirrel we were rehabbing in the house got loose, they did not chase it. They knew it was not wild game. This illustrates how akitas can grasp subtle nuances. They are very nosy and observant. They like to be included. My boy will come over and watch me if I am fixing something- the garbage disposal, my bicycle, doing landscaping or planting tomatoes.

Akita are _very_ observant and smart. They were bred for centuries to think independently when the 'owners' were away. They would be left to watch the children & babies while the adults farmed the fields. This is innate, and needs to be understood. They show minimal reaction to pain and fear, except to the family/pack alpha, and this has to be understood. Strong scolding for bad behavior is not productive. A gentle swat on the nose and a firm "no" is a respectful reprimand that the Akita _will_ understand. But they will not appear to be shamed like most domestic dogs would after a rebuke- any more and they will get resentful and angry. It's like how a mody teenager reacts: they understand, but don't want to admit it. This is actually a survival mechanism of wild dogs: don't show weakness.

But akitas need affection and interaction from the family/alphas as much as they will tolerate. This is pack bonding, and what makes for the fierce Akita loyalty: they need to be treated more likeIa family member than a pet. Yes, you can set firm boundaries, and the Akita will pick these up Pronto. They are smart, but they think independently. Patience and positive reinforcement are the best way. Patience is paramount in waiting for the Akita to respond to a command, and you have to let go the frustration of being made to wait. The Akita will let you know it does not want to do something, but when it decides to listen to you, it must be rewarded. Affection and praise are the best.

Our boy, 100 lbs+, will often turn his nose up at treats, but is always up for scratches, rubs, kisses, and such. They will get spoiled to some degree, but this reinforces how much they value their family. New people must be cautious coming in contact with family members until the akitas have time to see that the family approves of this--- the Akita switches from gentle family member to serious guard dog in an instant, without showing much change in expression.

Akitas are subtle, family loyal independent thinkers, but they are mostly intolerant of other dogs. Strong hunters, they are deceptively quick (actually rather lean under all that thick fur), and quiet stalkers.

Having our akitas has been an exercise in time and patience, but it has made me learn to cultivate this virtue. The reward is a beautiful animal that is more like a child than a dog, but that can be home alone regularly and excellent watchdog.

 

[The Snark]

Slow. On. The. Uptake. Some akitas acting like their primal ancestors. In the horse world they are called throwbacks. Self explanatory. Duh.

 

[gyrfalcon]

This is a very old thread but I might as well add to it:

Japanese and American Akitas are the same initial breed regardless of what some people and organizations may think. Only very recent Japanese's breeding initiatives have started restricting the Akita patterns and dispositions. The Japanese are making a much more docile and weaker breed in my opinion; but they're changing the breed. Not the US and other Akita breeders...

Here is a picture of the emperor of japan with black masked Akitas that are not accepted in the current Japanese breeding standard. The breed was not corrupted or mixed with other dog breeds in the USA. At least not any more than it was in Japan...

Akita's are dogs. They're just very INDEPENDENT thinkers and take a special sort of person to bond and work with.

If you have issues with an Akita please reach out to an Akita rescue group like :

Midwest Akita Rescue Society (MARS)

Akitas can be very dangerous to anyone when they're not socialized and trained properly. Shelter workers have been killed by Akitas because they were unfamiliar with the breed and the dog had social/emotional issues from bad owners... The people who bought Sadie definitely seem like a BAD fit for an Akita. They let the dog walk all over them and have no understanding of the breed. They're sitting on a ticking time bomb of their own making. Maybe Sadie will accept them... but what happens when a 6 year old kid runs through the yard or comes into their house?

This breed has a lot of important caveats owners need to be aware of, and deal with.

 

[KimFose1996]

I somehow got connected with a couple who acquired a young akita a few days ago. The precise communication to me was first, how does one put a dog down and second, could I assist in getting the animal put down or maybe take the dog off their hands.

I knew 1 akita and have known several others. I have some understanding of their mentality. But nothing prepared me for 'Sadie'. About 5 months old, 60 lbs, untrained, and pure primal akita. Roughly, right at half way between a cougar and an aloof Alsatian.

Sadie started off her new life on a chain in their front yard. A few hours later the yard was a blood bath with Sadie finishing off (eating) the remains of a stray dog. The couple were completely terrified.

I went over to interview Sadie. She accepted my presence in the normal akita way: tolerate. Not really accept. I was a thing. A competitive carnivore. After a few minutes I took the chain off her as she was obviously offended by it. In essence, human saying to animal, 'we own you' and animal thinking 'I own me. you are just controlling me'. Without the chain she selected a secluded place in the garden and lay down. I observed and just tried to empathize. Her attitude was, again, obvious: 'This is bull. I hate the world. Leave me alone. I'll happily fend for myself'.

I talked to Sadie the same as gentling a horse. Pretty much just making noise as I expressed unsaid sentiments: I understand. I respect you. Can we establish a rapport?

He mannerisms were very similar to that of a wolf but more sedate. Extremely alert, out of her territory and very aware of that and the vulnerability that came with it. Really, just like an antisocial cat that is fully aware it has a lot of weight it can throw around and just wants her space.

I spent about 7 hours working on the rapport. Just sitting near her. Walking around occasionally. Except for bathroom breaks and a drink of water, she just lay in her chosen space alertly regarding her new situation and disliking everything about it. At the end of the day I got up and said goodbye. She turned her head to stare at me. She had accepted me a little bit.

I informed her owners to put out food and water, don't try to approach her and certainly don't try to chain or exert any control of her. They were afraid and skeptical but did as instructed. Sadie spent the night in her corner of the yard. She wasn't even comfortable enough to roam.

The next day I repeated the scenario. Sadie heard my jeep pull up and was staring at where I would enter the yard. I went over and took my usual place a few feet away from her. She had turned her head away and didn't regard me further. I was accepted and thus became what the primal akita thinks of all humans: a non entity. Live and let live and don't get in each others faces. There was no further progress. In fact, that rapport is about as much as one can expect from an akita. Unless subjugated by very extensive training or breeding one co-exists with them and nothing more.

Her owners saw what I was doing and had watched carefully. At the end of the second day I explained Sadie to them. What rapport I had established was about as good as it will get. I'm not an oppressor or competitor and we can co-exist. Sadie was not and never would be a pet. She may become more amiable but she would never become a companion. Once she has her space and coexisted long enough around people who don't get up in her face she will learn to treat all humans as things other. Non threats... up to a point. If they thought they could handle her then what I did was what they would have to do and continue doing without lapse until she regards all humans in that light. She had to be treated just like they had rented a room to a moody stranger. You live together by mostly avoiding each other and being carefully respectful when you meet.

Would she become playful? She may have playful moments but they would be entirely of her own choosing. She has her own life, her own way of thinking and her own viewpoints on things. One of which she had already demonstrated: Other animals are considered lesser beings and occasionally food.
Is she dangerous? As dangerous as your average mellowed out bobcat or cougar, but a little higher up on the rational thinking scale. If she bites it is going to mean a trip to the emergency room. She will go as gung ho as a cat or wolf. But she's smart enough to not consider humans edible and the bite will only be a very brutal nasty warning to get out of her face.
What should they feed her? Whatever she wants. Trial and error and give her a wide range of choices. But yes, she will be quite happy to eat raw meat or even kill her own. Giving her a live chicken or two once a week would probably make her quite happy. And yes, she will eat the entire animal including the bones.

I then bit the bullet and laid out their 4 choices. 1. Put her down or return her. Get her out of their lives. 2. Attempt to subjugate her. With animals of her disposition more likely than not there will be a bad news altercation and she will end up being put down anyway. 3. Learn to live with her. Once settled and accepting she will demonstrate more personality than any 10 other dogs. 4. (Gasp) I would be willing to take her off their hands (dog you take this akita to have and to hold, to love and cherish until she or you die of old age or the plague?)

They contacted me two days later. Sadie had taken over the front porch. They asked her to move so they could get the door open and she understood and obliged. That evening Sadie was in the same place on the porch and moved without being asked, then returned to her station.
"We're going to keep her. No, she's going to keep us. Wish us luck."

May I see a picture of Sadie? Akitas are beautiful. Thanks!

 

[The Snark]

May I see a picture of Sadie? Akitas are beautiful. Thanks!

I think this is her. Several hundred ancient photos, unlabeled. Her color and build. I remember she had a thick ruff that made her face look small.
Character note, she looked cute and cuddly but a stranger just walking up to her she had a mental perimeter, cross the line and she transposed into a pissed off wolverine.

 

[KimFose1996]

I think this is her. Several hundred ancient photos, unlabeled. Her color and build. I remember she had a thick ruff that made her face look small.
Character note, she looked cute and cuddly but a stranger just walking up to her she had a mental perimeter, cross the line and she transposed into a pissed off wolverine.
View attachment 468777

Thanks!

 

[KimFose1996]

I remember you saying she was finishing off eating a stray dog. Was it a smaller dog?

 

[The Snark]

As best I can recall, I got a phone call. "Sadie just killed a dog and she's eating it." She had got done with her meal and what was left of the carcass removed when I arrived.
Kills are food. Normal primal thinking.

 

[KimFose1996]

As best I can recall, I got a phone call. "Sadie just killed a dog and she's eating it." She had got done with her meal and what was left of the carcass removed when I arrived.
Kills are food. Normal primal thinking.

Yikes!

 

[The Snark]

Yikes!

I've observed the Akita ancestors distant cousins here in Thailand in the Thai wild dog packs. They look similar to the Akita but about half their size. They range like the Akita, spreading out on a search fan with an alpha in the lead. Unlike similar wild canine, coyote and dingo, they are completely silent and have acute situational awareness as the entire group moves in zig zags. It was very interesting to observe from my vantage on a hill. One animal, the alpha emerged from the scrub area then a few seconds later others appear to it's right, each 10 to 20 feet away from the others. The alpha moved forwards slowly while the rest cut left until the entire group was on the alphas other side.
Coordinated search patterns similar to wolves well adapted to their environment.
Akita origins. Most experts think it is an offshoot of the India wolf. https://encyclopedia.pub/media/common/202211/mceclip0-637de87b12843.png

BTW, If anyone has some info on the Akita ancestry, scientific please, I'd be delighted to read about it.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I've observed the Akita ancestors distant cousins here in Thailand in the Thai wild dog packs. They look similar to the Akita but about half their size. They range like the Akita, spreading out on a search fan with an alpha in the lead. Unlike similar wild canine, coyote and dingo, they are completely silent and have acute situational awareness as the entire group moves in zig zags. It was very interesting to observe from my vantage on a hill. One animal, the alpha emerged from the scrub area then a few seconds later others appear to it's right, each 10 to 20 feet away from the others. The alpha moved forwards slowly while the rest cut left until the entire group was on the alphas other side.
Coordinated search patterns similar to wolves well adapted to their environment.
Akita origins. Most experts think it is an offshoot of the India wolf. https://encyclopedia.pub/media/common/202211/mceclip0-637de87b12843.png

BTW, If anyone has some info on the Akita ancestry, scientific please, I'd be delighted to read about it.

Akita A fighting dog . I found This the first time I searched it many years ago,? also used for hunting and various stuff. How did it maintain Wolf instincts , other breeds like huskies didn’t?? huskies still have a strong, pray drive, but not aggressive, .

 

[The Snark]

Akita A fighting dog . I found This the first time I searched it many years ago,? also used for hunting and various stuff.

In my limited contact with Akitas. Not a fighting animal as in territorial snarling and mindless biting hoedowns. Best would be to describe mine when the coyote packs came through. Silent as usual, never growled or barked. He didn't charge out into the field but moved at a fast walk or slow trot - stalking. On two occasions when the coyotes surrounded him he froze and waited for a victim to come close enough at his side. Then more like the strike of a snake a sideways slash bite and shook his head, flinging the victim around like a rag doll then dropping it and waiting for the next, wash, rinse repeat. A couple of 'pit' bulls came in the yard and suffered the same fate. Ignoring one holding onto his shoulder and ragdoll the other then one on one he stalked the second like a great cat. And sadly, two St. Bernards of my neighbor. Killed one, the other escaped but had to be put down and I had to cough up serious bucks for loss of a pedigree breeder. (Years down the road, I stay in amiable contact with their owner. She always signs her letters, PS I still hate your dog.)
Same same in the high country with bears but he was wary and circled. Kept circling until the bear went tree and stood guard. They were trained? employed to do this way back when in Japan.

How did it maintain Wolf instincts , other breeds like huskies didn’t?? huskies still have a strong, pray drive, but not aggressive, .

I'd say more like refined the wolf traits, making them more cat like. I don't think you've had a lot of contact with pack huskies. They can be super belligerent. Get a dose of bared fangs if you try to pet them.

 

[KimFose1996]

I've observed the Akita ancestors distant cousins here in Thailand in the Thai wild dog packs. They look similar to the Akita but about half their size. They range like the Akita, spreading out on a search fan with an alpha in the lead. Unlike similar wild canine, coyote and dingo, they are completely silent and have acute situational awareness as the entire group moves in zig zags. It was very interesting to observe from my vantage on a hill. One animal, the alpha emerged from the scrub area then a few seconds later others appear to it's right, each 10 to 20 feet away from the others. The alpha moved forwards slowly while the rest cut left until the entire group was on the alphas other side.
Coordinated search patterns similar to wolves well adapted to their environment.
Akita origins. Most experts think it is an offshoot of the India wolf. https://encyclopedia.pub/media/common/202211/mceclip0-637de87b12843.png

BTW, If anyone has some info on the Akita ancestry, scientific please, I'd be delighted to read about it.

Thank you for the link.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

In my limited contact with Akitas. Not a fighting animal as in territorial snarling and mindless biting hoedowns. Best would be to describe mine when the coyote packs came through. Silent as usual, never growled or barked. He didn't charge out into the field but moved at a fast walk or slow trot - stalking. On two occasions when the coyotes surrounded him he froze and waited for a victim to come close enough at his side. Then more like the strike of a snake a sideways slash bite and shook his head, flinging the victim around like a rag doll then dropping it and waiting for the next, wash, rinse repeat. A couple of 'pit' bulls came in the yard and suffered the same fate. Ignoring one holding onto his shoulder and ragdoll the other then one on one he stalked the second like a great cat. And sadly, two St. Bernards of my neighbor. Killed one, the other escaped but had to be put down and I had to cough up serious bucks for loss of a pedigree breeder. (Years down the road, I stay in amiable contact with their owner. She always signs her letters, PS I still hate your dog.)
Same same in the high country with bears but he was wary and circled. Kept circling until the bear went tree and stood guard. They were trained? employed to do this way back when in Japan.

I'd say more like refined the wolf traits, making them more cat like. I don't think you've had a lot of contact with pack huskies. They can be super belligerent. Get a dose of bared fangs if you try to pet them.

I’ve seen their aggression towards other dogs and fighting over bones. I’ve never seen the Wilder pack variety, but when we had huskies, they were terrible guard dogs, and only barking at certain people. I have no doubt they can take out a coyote. Just probably not a wolf. akita are bigger and stronger. I’m shocked how Smart and strong for yours was.

 

[The Snark]

I’ve never seen the Wilder pack variety, but when we had huskies, they were terrible guard dogs, and only barking at certain people.

That is something I've always wanted to explore further. Some dogs pick up something with certain people. A Samoyed I was around for several years as example. Exactly like your husky description. But selective. And on a couple of occasions completely changed personalities. Encountering a vagrant grubby looking guy on the street once it went pure guns on him, fangs bared and snarling. When I approached him to round him up he took it as a cue the push his berserk attitude.
Dogs pick up on things, and the closer related they are to their primal ancestors it seems the more pronounced it becomes.
(And most dogs can see spirits but I'm not going to go into that.)