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Acanthoscurria fracta question

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by Exoskeleton Invertebrates, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. Walter1

    Walter1 Arachnosquire

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    Temper tantrum.

    Very handsome species.
     
  2. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    Anger management. And he still on his back.
     
  3. Sana

    Sana Arachnoprince

    Ahhhh... but he's so cute being all big and tough...
     
  4. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    Hmmm! My female won't let go of the ruler. Pissy and stubborn as usual.
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  5. sdsnybny

    sdsnybny Arachnogeek Arachnosupporter

    Maybe she is protesting the brand choice of rulers or the material they are made of. :D
     
  6. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    My last female

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  7. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    IMG_4195.JPG Let's ask the audience, do you see a resemblance, possibility, could be, maybe etc.????????

    The abstract drawing is of the only known Acanthoscurria species in French Guiana.

    Acanthoscurria simoensi http://www.scielo.br/pdf/zool/v31n1/08.pdf
     
  8. AphonopelmaTX

    AphonopelmaTX Moderator Staff Member

    I would say that is pretty much an exact match. It fits the key well enough that I would ID it as A. simoensi.

    Got a male by any chance?
     
  9. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    IMG_4138.JPG IMG_4139.JPG
    Hi @AphonopelmaTX , Stuart Longhorn asked me to take photos of the metatarsals/ scopula from the underside of Leg III and Leg IV. After Stuart receiving the photos from me this was his response.

    For those hind legs - i'm reading these bits of that paper (not in figures). Acanthoscurria juruenicola, p.67: "Scopulae on metatarsi I-II present throughout ventral portion, restricted to apical half of metatarsi III and only on apex of IV."

    Acanthoscurria simoensi p.70: "Scopulae on metatarsi I and II throughout all segment, III on distal half, absent on IV"

    .getting to the plain english for ya! ...So the metatarsus/metatarsi is that longer segment 'above' the foot. Your photos are great for it, thankyou. Bascially on tarsus III can see it's about half scopulate, .....I'm seeing it as "scopulae absent on IV" so fits much better from that charcter with A.simoensi than A.juruenicola. As did the spermathecae

    The reason juruenicola was brought up as a possible ID is because I was told by Rick West it was. Rick west originally had it listed on his website as Acanthoscurria fracta for many years, a few days ago Rick received word from someone that is was juruenicola. Rick made name changes on his website to Acanthoscurria juruenicola. When Rick informed me about the new information I contested the change of ID, I explained why I did not agree. I emailed some of Stuart's messages response to a possible ID of this species to Rick. After Rick read the messages he decided to look into the matter a bit further and changed the name on his website as Acanthoscurria sp., female, nr. Manaus, Amazonas State, Brazil.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
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  10. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    No male, I'm still working on it though.If you still have the dead specimen I gave you you will see that on Leg I and Leg II the scopula is full not half or not absent. I will post photos of Leg I and Leg II later today.
     
  11. AphonopelmaTX

    AphonopelmaTX Moderator Staff Member

    Awesome! Your picture of the metatarsus and tarsus of legs 3 and 4 shows the scopulation exactly as described in the paper for the metatarsus of leg 3. Like Stuart I'm also not seeing scopulae on the tarsus of leg 4, but that could be just that one specimen of your's. I'll check the one you sent me to compare.
     
  12. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    The specimen of mine is of my deceased adult female, however I do have a molt of my younger female that I've checked as well, she also has the same characteristics as my adult. I will post photo of Leg I and Leg II later today.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  13. JoeRossi

    JoeRossi Arachnohumbled Old Timer

    Acanthoscurria simoensi: Scopulae on metatarsi leg III distal half- Is clearly evident and comprehendible. A clear difference from Acanthoscurria juruenicola restricted to apical half of metatarsi leg III. In addition, spermatheca differences can not be confused and can only concur the photos you have pictured are not Acanthoscurria juruenicola.

    However, it would appear that a Leg 3 and 4 observation would be beneficial of both species to clearly define. Hopefully someone can provide juruenicola photos of leg 3 and 4 to compare.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  14. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    IMG_0059.JPG Acanthoscurria simoensi

    Hello everyone, I personally want to thank a few people for their time and efforts to help ID my specimen. Before I name those who were involved with helping me to properly ID my specimen I want to share a statement made by Rick West himself that was emailed to me this evening.

    Hi Jose,

    Okay, it took me awhile to search through thousands of preserved theraphosid specimens in boxes but I finally
    found my single female (I am still searching for the male I know I have). I had found and imaged (in situ) these

    specimens at Igarape Jacare, off west side of upper Rio Tarumã-Açu, Manaus, Amazonas, Brazil

    (02° 53' 49.92" S, 60° 7' 16.08" W). I compared the spermathecae and scopulation descriptions of A. simoensi

    and A. juruenicola and agree with you, Ray and Stuart that my (and your) Acanthoscurria species is A. simoensi.

    It wasn’t until 2014 when the female of A. simoensi was first described http://www.scielo.br/pdf/zool/v31n1/08.pdf.

    Having now compared the zoogeographical ranges, spermathecae, leg scopulation and stridulating apparatus of the

    female A. juruenicola and A. simoensi, I found the following;

    * the zoogeographical range is in the correct type female range (Manaus, Amazonas) for A. simoensi, whereas,

    it is not for A. juruenicola (found only in nearby surrounding States, but not in Amazonas State).

    * my specimen had 13 stridulating bristles. There were 10 stridulating bristles on the type female A. simoensi

    specimen and 32 stridulating bristles on A. juruenicola. Some variation in counts in labial/coxal cuspules,

    spines and stridulating setae would be expected, but not as high as noted in A. juruenicola.

    * my female had the two sclerotized low lobes, connected by lighter sclerotization (to appear as fused), at the

    top of a columnar spermathecae, similar as illustrated for A. simoensi, and were not separated as in illustrated

    for A. juruenicola in the above 2014 Paula et al. paper.

    * my female had metatarsi on leg III with 50 % scopulation and no scopulation on leg IV (see attached image).
    * my female’s overall color pattern and body part sizes pretty well match the female description of A. simoensi

    in the Paula et al. paper (unfortunately, no female habitus image was in that paper).

    * lastly, the male habitus image in that same paper does look like my image of the male I found in Manaus.

    So, based on both your specimens and my specimens, I feel fairly confident that the Acanthoscurria species you
    Have (and had sent exuviae of to me, sent to Butantan), and that I also found and imaged in Manaus, are
    Acanthoscurria simoensi Vol 2000. I have changed my website images accordingly.

    I want to thank you for bringing this to my attention for further investigation. It’s always nice to be able to have a
    correct theraphosid ID.

    All the best and I hope this helps,

    Rick

    Besides Rick West information I've taken into consideration the opinions of Stuart Longhorn, Joe Rossi, Tom Patterson, Ray Gabriel, Martin of "Tarantula Canada" and the abstract documents.

    All information that I've read leads to Acanthoscurria simoensi.

    This species was sold in the hobby as Acanthoscurria fracta. Acanthoscurria fracta is no longer valid and has the new name Acanthoscurria natalensis that belongs to a different species.
    Since A. fracta is no longer valid for my specimen, I previously named my specimen under the genus and common giving name Acanthoscurria sp. "Para Mongo Zebra", now with all the information and opinions that I've gathered from different sources the proper name should be label as Acanthoscurria simoensi.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
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  15. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    IMG_4400.JPG Acanthoscurria simoensi: Wild caught 4" inch female.

    My new member of the family.
     
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  16. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    DSC_0363.JPG DSC_0268.JPG DSC_0285.JPG Another molt from my Acanthoscurria simoensi and still no male for her.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
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  17. Cesar9005

    Cesar9005 Arachnopeon

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    Peru
    Hello guys!! I really need some help!! This is my first time having this specie as pets and I really don't know much about how to care of them. I have been trying to search for information but its very vague to be honest. I was given 2 of this beautiful Acanthoscurria sp. "Para Mongo Zebra".

    I need to know where I should place them, what to feed them, how to recognise if they are male or female and if they can live together in the same space?

    Thank you very much!!

    Greetings from Peru!!
     
  18. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    Do you have photos of them?
     
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  19. JoeRossi

    JoeRossi Arachnohumbled Old Timer

    Agreed ...show me the pair of mongos lol
     
  20. Cesar9005

    Cesar9005 Arachnopeon

    10
    1
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    Yeah I will post them right now! Thank you for getting back to me!! :)

    I want to apologize with everyone if maybe where I have them is not the right place for them but I hope you understand that they were given to me as a present and I'm asking for help because I want to give them the best life I can offer to them. They are just so cute!

    Thank you in advance for your help!

    Kind regards,

    Cesar
     

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