A. metallica, or something else??

[RazorRipley]

So who was the dealer?

Dealer was Regal... excuse my timid, and less experienced friend, she often disregards info given by others who may have some input worth listening to.... This is a classic case of not knowing what one is spending money on.

 

[Ker]

I had very clearly stated in a previous response that when I bought Emily, I was too inexperienced to know what I was getting. At that time, I didnt know about Arachnoboards, so never imagined how many people who were out there that could be helpful. I liked her, I trusted the person to know what they were selling me, and so I bought her.

I would have prefered that the dealers name not get brought into this for several reasons; all of which were well known. I am not out to slander anyones reputation for a "mistake", and until a different conclusion is come to, that is what this is. So, no, not timid- polite, respectful, thoughtful, TACTFUL and professional... words that are ovbiously lacking in your vocabulary.

 

[ChrisNCT]

avic avic

Well. I kind of went through the same ordeal with my Avic avic.

I had bought 2 emperor scorpions from him. I knew he was into T's so I inquired into them. He had always talked about pinktoes in general as though they were his favorite. Finally one day he came out and asked me if I would like to buy one. I had asked him what kind it was and he told me it was the Metallica Pinktoe.
I didn't know any better. There are not allot of resources out there in some states to help noobies find info on particular pets such as these. I never even knew people kept such pets as these. I just bought it for the neat pet that I could have.

After some research, I found these forums. I have found most to be very helpful and I loved the pics on these boards as soon as I found them. Since then I am hooked into the hobby.

Whether it's a Avic avic or a metallica....as a pet for you, you should be able to decide how much that particular pet is worth to "you" not the market. When I buy, if I see one that is appealing to me...I'd buy it. You buy them for you and no one else.

Then the second time I bought one, it was from a dealer. I went to pick it up I was so excited! I was looking for a Costa Rican Zebra and called to verify that the dealer had one. They told me yes, so I went. After some recent searches on the web for the A. seemannis, I have come to the conclusion that I was sold a E. campestratus (Pink Zebra Beauty). I was pissed as first but I still loved the pet. The pet is still my favorite one and I would never sell it! That is what's important to each individual person.



AS FAR AS THE DEALERS NAME BEING BROUGHT INTO THIS........

I don't think that was the proper thing to do in todays world. People can be sued for slander. One should be very careful as to releasing information that another would liek to keep to themselves. Maybe she would have liked to talk to them first before you opened your big crack. Thats was an assinine thing to do.

As many know....slings can be sold by any common name or species name since many of them look the same. It is not uncommon to see similarities between the L. parybanana's, A. seemanni's and the E. campestratus. The look pretty dam identical to most people. It could have been an honest mistake by someone who was not properly told on what the species name was and/ or that he didn't know the difference between one that is so simliar to the other.

My .02

 

[Ker]

That was quite a mouthful !! And I sure agree with almost all of it ( except that I bought Emily as a three and a half inch juvenile, so they pretty much should have known what she was) I will go and talk to my usual "spider-person" at Regal. I trust him and his judgement. I have already spoken to the owner, and he and I agreed that if the "kid" who showed me Emily made a mistake then he will "fix" it. It has nothing to do with being happy with her or not.. its called good business, and the desire to preserve your reputation.

 

[ChrisNCT]

avic avic

I understand what yer sayin, but you know what I mean. I mean is that you paid 30.00 for it and found this out, is it still worth that much to you? It would still be worth the same to me. I dont plan on selling any of them, so why would I worry about profit of a cetain T. Not saying that we should pay 200.00 for an Avic avic but if you really wanted one and you bond with it, then you would be tempted to buy it.


Not being mean....just giving opinion on bonded relationships with pets.

 

[Ker]

First of all Chris, if I had only paid 30 for it I wouldnt be complaining at all !! Second, its not the money that is upsetting me.. its the fact that I should be able to trust my dealer to not attempt to swindle me, and I plan on making sure that is exactly the case. I have run a business.. I know what it takes to make a good business, and if they knowingly had sold me something at an inflated price because I was a beginner, and they could get away with it, then not only was it unethical, but it was devious. I would rather pay the shipping to get a spider from someone I trust to send me what I am paying for, then go and get one from someone who doesnt even know what they are selling, or is selling a "metallica" creation. So the answer is yes, I love her and I would have gladly paid 30 for her, but since that is not the case, maybe you should look at it from my side too.

 

[RazorRipley]

Maybe she would have liked to talk to them first before you opened your big crack. Thats was an assinine thing to do.


My .02

Pissing me off is an "assinine thing to do"

 

[ChrisNCT]

posting assinine things

Yeah right dude....like you have any clue who your messing with.

 

[Wolvie56X]

ummmm, seeing how one dude is in nashville and the other is in ct, this is really dumb to even babble about, geez people

anyways, the invert guy at regal is the best of the best, the person that sold her the T is not the invert guy, so its really not anyones fault, but they are willing to fix the situation, the invert guy knows kerry and they are quite buddy buddy, so its all gonna be taken care of

know that names have been mentioned, regal is an awesome place, i have never ever had anything bad to say about them and i doubt i will, it was an honest mistake and for people to get angry about it, other than ker, thats pretty childish

and on a side note, she didnt know about this site til i made her read a couple posts ;P

Wolvie

 

[Ker]

Yes, Joe, you are my savior.. THANKS !!

 

[Garrick]

No offense, but expecting a dealer to have taxonomic/cladistic knowledge above the layman/hobbyist level is unreasonable.
They're in business, not science. I've heard left and right from dealers in the US when questioned about some species that they got spiders from "breeder X in Europe" who assures them it's "species x". That's all they can say when it gets to that point.
I also deal with a businessman who has partial ownership of a major warehouse in Guyana, a man who's reponsible for a lot of Avic imports, and I've visited the import facility in Hollywood, FL, that a lot of reptile/tarantula dealers use. It's where the ones from the Guyana warehouse come in.
I've sorted through 100 lot boxes of A avics and supposed A metallica, and understand where they come from and how they're sorted.
I'm sitting on about 100+ molts of various Avic species from N. american dealers and looking at them against what lit I have. Here's what I've got to say based on all that:
I don't want to step on anyone's toes, especially those trying to put food on the table (time will soon sort out the malicious anyway), but
you're not going to be able to prove something called a. metallica isn't A. avic and vise-versa; the lit is too general. Your dealer does not have ausserer's 1875 paper, nor Linne's deist pre-evolution classification of species from the 18th century; even if he did, they're useless. It's like expecting a corner crack dealer to be a pharmicist.
The myths of "white tipped hair" and "larger sizes" and "no red hair" are just that-myths. Pet trader lore for someone to find something to justify an expenditure. Hell, here's a pic of your A. metallica that you decided was an A. avic for now:
Rick West's pic

and another:

more

and another:

more
and another:

more

I could go on all day, but you get my point.


What matters is what did the dealer tell you to expect it to look like? If it's not what he said it'd look like, send it back and get your money. If he simply said it's A. metallica, then, unless he's a saint and doesn't care so much about money, I don't see why he'd refund you. There is no definable A. metallica, and often times, dealers don't even know what they're buying.
Reference this thread:
here

While I do think it's obtuse, even obnoxious for people to advertise "the real" A. metallica, geroldi, et.al, plus G. cala, H. hercules, etc., so forth and so on without knowing a thing about taxonomy, I do realize that often times the dealer has been "roped in" as well by not only poorly done description papers, but breeders, warehousers, etc.

I think the best you could ethically ask for is to pay him what he paid wholesale and then ask him to not advertise any more of that species unless he knows what defines that species (which I challenge anyone to do scientifically).

-Garrick

eight

 

[Wolvie56X]

i think the whole point of this post was to find out what species her little emily is, not to bash anyone or any of that in any way, its also being resolved and both parties are happy, small misunderstanding that is easily fixed

so now that is said, we can all get on with our lives and talk about the creepy crawlies we all love and enjoy

and to help that, i suggest we talk about how terrified kerry is of scorpions ;P

Wolvie

 

[Ker]

Sarcasm isnt needed, nor are opinions that have been voiced over and over, and pictures that I have seen a thousand times..

Joe, yuck.. you keep them.. i will look at them from over here.. with binoculars!!!!

 

[manville]

Definitely not a metallica i would say avic avic

 

[Aviculariinae]

Hi Garrick,
What about people who wish to breed their 'suppose ably' A Metallica. What way do you thing the Avic,s should be labeled when they are advertised for sale?

 

[FryLock]

Brendan If they where anything other then mygalomorph's they would almost certainly have been named and recognised as subspecies or regional races but one the's no funding for research and two its just a very small number of arachnologists and nuts likes us that care , best thing to do is this take pictures of sub adult males before there colours change so you can compare them to peoples females before mating them to keep the races (or possible species) as pure as possible, name’s just wont cut it until the has been a full revision even then why not try to keep regional races within a given species true to there wild types :?.

 

[Garrick]

Brendan,

I go with what Fry said. Maybe one day we'll have a hobby like dogs. . . where people are breeding "high -orange" P. murinus, amazingly green-blue Avics, etc. However, I am not sure how pigmentation works. . . seems like there'd be variation dependent on molt cycle, humdiity, etc. I think CM and Martin know something about external color factors, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

-Garrick

eight

 

[FryLock]

True Garrick i would hope not tho herps and fish and even birds are already being mixed up left right and center and most of the time its deliberate

 

[jesses]

I should really not say this but.. when the revision of Avicularia goes thought the s*** will hit the fan big time, ppl will feel cheated if species like A.gerold are made syno's of A.avicularia ppl will be up in arms which would be silly after all if you pay a bit more for say a ghost corn then a normal corn have you been ripped off NO, on the another hand and this is very unlightly but you never know if some of the species considered to be colour morphs/races ARE found to be true species with out a massive redescription of them the breeder/importer/hobbyist will have a nightmare trying to keep them pure as captive lines.

Frylock the fact of the matter is that people ARE being cheated. Petstores and some dealers will claim that every adult A. Avic is a Metallica because no one knows the difference... I can make any A. Avic have the "fiber optic" "lit up like a christmas tree" on film. All you need to do is point a bright light at it and force your camera to focus on the fine hairs rather than the body itself. Very easy

 

[jesses]

Dealer was Regal... excuse my timid, and less experienced friend, she often disregards info given by others who may have some input worth listening to.... This is a classic case of not knowing what one is spending money on.

I had the same problem with Invertepet when I first got into the T hobby, now I have an extremely expensive A. Avic... This is why I'm being vocal on the issue... And I will never buy from Invertepet ever again