A. avic strange behavior - please provide input

[Paiige]

So it's been a while since I've been on here, and it makes me sad that I'm returning with an issue.

Female sub-adult A. avic (my sweet girl Annie) has been acting very strangely, starting yesterday.

Just to get this out of the way - molted about four months ago with no issues. Husbandry is all correct, enclosure kept clean, right temps, blah blah blah. She ate last about two weeks ago, and the crickets were all from the same "batch" that were fed to all my other Ts and none of them are exhibiting problems.

Her movements have been very clumsy. She doesn't seem to want to sit with all her feet on the ground (or bark or wall or any other surface) and can't seem to hold herself up very well. I watched her awkwardly kind of fall over onto her back (no, not molting) and she didn't seem to have the strength to flip herself back over.

For the sake of her not falling all over the place, I removed her "trees" and added about 8" of substrate so if she climbs and falls, it won't be far enough to hurt her and it will be on soft ground. During the transition, moving her was very difficult - she was super slow, sluggish and more apt to stress-curl than bolt, which is very much unlike her. I don't want to stick her in a wet stuffy ICU so this seems like the best option.

I know DKS is a debatable topic but if it were real I would objectively categorize this as the early stages. I'm not seeing any jerky movement but the loss of coordination is pretty apparent. She won't eat, either.

 

[Leila]

Clear your inbox, lady.

Are you certain she is not in premolt?

 

[Paiige]

Clear your inbox, lady.

Are you certain she is not in premolt?

Yes, I'm very certain. She's (trying to be) very active, and I'd be shocked if she molted. It's the clumsiness of her movements and her lack of coordination that scare me. I know sometimes they can be a little weird in premolt but she molted recently.

And sorry, I'm trying to clear it but there's a lot in there and I'm on my phone so AB is not super functional lol

 

[Leila]

Yes, I'm very certain. She's (trying to be) very active, and I'd be shocked if she molted. It's the clumsiness of her movements and her lack of coordination that scare me. I know sometimes they can be a little weird in premolt but she molted recently.

And sorry, I'm trying to clear it but there's a lot in there and I'm on my phone so AB is not super functional lol

Well, it is freakin great to see you back. (Missed ya, lady.) But I am sorry that it is under such dire terms.

 

[Paiige]

Well, it is freakin great to see you back. (Missed ya, lady.) But I am sorry that it is under such dire terms.

Thanks love I don't have much free time to be on here anymore sadly. I hope all is well with you and your little ones!
I'm telling myself if we just believe it hard enough Annie will be alright

 

[Adrsfinest]

And you're sure the humidity is up? How old is she? I know you said you don't really want to do an icu but it just might be the thing too help just in case the humidity wasn't high enough to keep her say libricated In a sense

 

[14pokies]

And you're sure the humidity is up? How old is she? I know you said you don't really want to do an icu but it just might be the thing too help just in case the humidity wasn't high enough to keep her say libricated In a sense

The last thing you want to do with an Avic is put it in a stuffy wet box.. That's what kills Avics.

 

[14pokies]

So it's been a while since I've been on here, and it makes me sad that I'm returning with an issue.

Female sub-adult A. avic (my sweet girl Annie) has been acting very strangely, starting yesterday.

Just to get this out of the way - molted about four months ago with no issues. Husbandry is all correct, enclosure kept clean, right temps, blah blah blah. She ate last about two weeks ago, and the crickets were all from the same "batch" that were fed to all my other Ts and none of them are exhibiting problems.

Her movements have been very clumsy. She doesn't seem to want to sit with all her feet on the ground (or bark or wall or any other surface) and can't seem to hold herself up very well. I watched her awkwardly kind of fall over onto her back (no, not molting) and she didn't seem to have the strength to flip herself back over.

For the sake of her not falling all over the place, I removed her "trees" and added about 8" of substrate so if she climbs at, it won't be far enough to hurt her and it will be on soft ground. During the transition, moving her was very difficult - she was super slow, sluggish and more apt to stress-curl than bolt, which is very much unlike her. I don't want to stick her in a wet stuffy ICU so this seems like the best option.

I know DKS is a debatable topic but if it were real I would objectively categorize this as the early stages. I'm not seeing any jerky movement but the loss of coordination is pretty apparent. She won't eat, either.

It sounds like some type of poisoning Speculating what it could be is all but useless.. Think about what chemicals may have been introduced by you, friends,family members , feeders or other pets.. If anything comes to mind eliminate it and hope she recovers.

 

[Adrsfinest]

The last thing you want to do with an Avic is put it in a stuffy wet box.. That's what kills Avics.

So then what would you suggest for a tarantula that may just not have the right amount of humidity? I've seen it plenty of times with aviculara aviculara where if they don't get the right amount of humidity they can get slow and slugging it's almost as if the hydrolics in their body thay drive everything dry out so only in that case would I suggest an icu but by the slow sluggish movement and tripping over herself it seems as if she could potentially be dried out or could have potentially gotten something in her system as you said sometimes people do things without even noticing like spraying fabreeze or some type of cleaning agent when steaming up and not even thinking about the air taking those chemicals right into the enclosure but in any case I hope you're tarantula recovers backnto itself again best wishes

 

[JoshDM020]

So then what would you suggest for a tarantula that may just not have the right amount of humidity? I've seen it plenty of times with aviculara aviculara where if they don't get the right amount of humidity they can get slow and slugging it's almost as if the hydrolics in their body thay drive everything dry out so only in that case would I suggest an icu but by the slow sluggish movement and tripping over herself it seems as if she could potentially be dried out or could have potentially gotten something in her system as you said sometimes people do things without even noticing like spraying fabreeze or some type of cleaning agent when steaming up and not even thinking about the air taking those chemicals right into the enclosure but in any case I hope you're tarantula recovers backnto itself again best wishes

On the topic of the humidity: many many people can and will tell you that the BEST and EASIEST way to keep any Avic species is with dry substrate and high ventilation. Humidity being "too low" isnt really an issue for avics. Too MUCH, however, will ultimately kill them. ICU is not a very good idea at all for this species.
First thing i learned for MOST species: do not worry about finding some magical percentage of humidity. Its unnecessary stress for you, and also some spiders.

 

[14pokies]

So then what would you suggest for a tarantula that may just not have the right amount of humidity? I've seen it plenty of times with aviculara aviculara where if they don't get the right amount of humidity they can get slow and slugging it's almost as if the hydrolics in their body thay drive everything dry out so only in that case would I suggest an icu but by the slow sluggish movement and tripping over herself it seems as if she could potentially be dried out or could have potentially gotten something in her system as you said sometimes people do things without even noticing like spraying fabreeze or some type of cleaning agent when steaming up and not even thinking about the air taking those chemicals right into the enclosure but in any case I hope you're tarantula recovers backnto itself again best wishes

I've had a few dehydrated avics also..

They are generally listless and most stress curl.. That's my first indication of a hydraulic pressure problem

In the situation that I fear dehydration the very first thing I do is dribble, squirt or gently mist the webbing with water. It's actually my prefered method of offering avics water. I do provide water dishes but under certain circumstances some of my avics have completely refused to use them for reasons only they know. In a severe case I may set the spider over a shallow water dish.. Never had a case that severe though luckily.

The only real thought that I give to avics as far as humidity goes is making sure it's not overly moist.. From about 3rd instar forward I raise my avics basically bone dry with a water dish and I periodically add water to webbing just to make sure they are drinking.

Everybody raises avics a little different and higher humidity combined with good ventilation can work but it's safer keeping them dry IMO.

In any case the best aproach to fixing humidity problems is to wet the substrate.. Why would you move an already stressed out Tarantulas to foreign enclosure when you can just wet the sub and solve the problem that way?

 

[Adrsfinest]

I've had a few dehydrated avics also..

They are generally listless and most stress curl.. That's my first indication of a hydraulic pressure problem

In the situation that I fear dehydration the very first thing I do is dribble, squirt or gently mist the webbing with water. It's actually my prefered method of offering avics water. I do provide water dishes but under certain circumstances my some of my avics have completely refused to use them for reasons only they know. In a severe case I may set the spider over a shallow water dish.. Never had a case that severe though luckily.

The only real thought that I give to avics as far as humidity goes is making sure it's not overly moist.. From about 3rd instar forward I raise my avics basically bone dry with a water dish and I periodically add water to webbing just to make sure they are drinking.

Everybody raises avics a little different and higher humidity combined with good ventilation can work but it's safer keeping them dry IMO.

In any case the best aproach to fixing humidity problems is to wet the substrate.. Why would you move an already stressed out Tarantulas to foreign enclosure when you can just wet the sub and solve the problem that way?

I agree I would only suggest the icu as a last resort option

 

[14pokies]

I agree I would only suggest the icu as a last resort option

ICU's are the last stop for avics.. I can see putting them into a shorter enclosure to reduce the risk of falls or do what the op did, adding substrate and removing decorations to minimize falls. I wouldn't add any supplemental moisture though. Just a water dish.

Unless it's a stuck molt or severe injury I don't see any benefit of an ICU.. Even then I really don't see much benefit..

Tarantulas are born survivors that make a life out of staying hidden. I think much more harm is done by bugging them when they are sick or injured.

The ICU debate has been ongoing for a decade and won't be settled here by the two of us.. I respect your opinion even though I don't agree.

 

[Leila]

Let's not turn Paiige's thread into an ICU debate, you guys. No offense to anyone.

 

[Adrsfinest]

ICU's are the last stop for avics.. I can see putting them into a shorter enclosure to reduce the risk of falls or do what the op did, adding substrate and removing decorations to minimize falls. I wouldn't add any supplemental moisture though. Just a water dish.

Unless it's a stuck molt or severe injury I don't see any benefit of an ICU.. Even then I really don't see much benefit..

Tarantulas are born survivors that make a life out of staying hidden. I think much more harm is done by bugging them when they are sick or injured.

The ICU debate has been ongoing for a decade and won't be settled here by the two of us.. I respect your opinion even though I don't agree.

100% agree I respect your opinion as well sometimes people don't agree that's the way of the world be too easy to agree on everything but I can def agree about the chemicals being introduced to an enclosure I have lost a t due to that my daughter unknowingly sprayed some type of
Cleaner to clean the table the enclosure was on and the t must have injested it and passed it was a sad learning experience for my daughter

 

[14pokies]

Let's not turn Paiige's thread into an ICU debate, you guys. No offense to anyone.

Why? she left...

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Sadly sometimes we need to accept the hard truth. What goes for us "goes" for our inverts, even if we doesn't want that and we always seek to go the extra mile.

Sometimes .... happens and then you die. Happens to us, in life. Happens to our inverts.

I hope the best.

 

[Andrea82]

@Paiige has she been pooping normally? How does her abdomen look? Iirc there was a person here a couple of months ago whose spider behaved similarly. It turned out the spider was suffering from a severe impaction.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

@Paiige has she been pooping normally? How does her abdomen look? Iirc there was a person here a couple of months ago whose spider behaved similarly. It turned out the spider was suffering from a severe impaction.

This was my first thought too.

 

[Paiige]

@Paiige has she been pooping normally? How does her abdomen look? Iirc there was a person here a couple of months ago whose spider behaved similarly. It turned out the spider was suffering from a severe impaction.

I'll search for the thread.
She seems to be pooping normally. Hasn't had a ...movement...since we removed her decorations and added substrate yesterday but there was a healthy ...load...as of a few days ago. Abdomen looks okay, she's a little skinnier than I'd like her to be but hubby likes feeding his Ts the way we're "supposed" to. You all know I prefer my Ts on the chunky side. No shriveling or bloating. Physically she looks fine. I checked out her underside to see if she could have any growths or signs of injury and she looks totally normal.

This is hubby's first lady and the poor thing is losing his mind. It makes me so sad for both of them knowing there's really nothing I can do.