Genus Poecilotheria

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I opened this thread to share photos of members of the genus Poecilotheria ... and only Poecilotheria photos. So please share your pix of these beauties with us! =

...I think it's time for a thread like this! =;-)

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Nice pics! Too bad I'm a wuss, and will never keep a pokie..
Peace,
Gillian

Here's one of my big female ornata. Not a great pic but I'll try and get some different ones.

Originally posted by Martin H.
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The most incredible photos as usual Martin, thanks!

Steve

What no subfusca pics?

Guess I'll have to take care of that one. Great pics Martin and everyone else as well. Here's one of my female subfusca. Probably my favorite pokie.

Phil

Wow, Martin, I must say you take good pics and all of your pokes are simply beauties

Originally posted by Gillian
Nice pics! Too bad I'm a wuss, and will never keep a pokie..
Peace,
Gillian

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Actually, don't beat yourself up for that. It's very respectable. I see way too many people keeping pokies without being very experienced at keeping agressive tarantulas, or even being comfortable with them.

In the end, it's best to NOT have a pokie, or usumbara, or togo starburst, or even cobolt blues unless you are an experienced hobbiest.

On a side note, even an experienced guy like me won't keep a pokie. I'm not a fan of agressive species, for the most part. My H. maculata is probably going to stay my only exception

-Bryan

On a personal note, I think Pokies are overrated in terms of aggression. I rarely seen my rear up. Hell, my G. Rosea does it more than my P. Regalis does. Granted, IF you get bit, it's going to be a little worse than a G. Rosea bite, but if you simply don't handle it, what's the big deal?



I've played around with my pokie quite a bit (Don't take the word "played" wrong, I didn't harass the spider in stupid ways ) and have only seen it get up on it's back legs once. Maybe if you give them a decent place to hide, they won't bite as often. Seems to work for me. They really aren't the monsters they're made out to be (Although, it's best if you treat it like one..)

Poecilotheria fasciata, subadult female.

Hi,

Originally posted by sling

I'd like to know which spiders on the previous picture are male or female ! I'm just trying to sex my regalis...

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If I remember right (some I took a while ago) and to my knowledge, all spiders on the collage are females.
sorry to all other guys, I am just a bit lazy at the moment to write in english: Wie groß ist denn Dein Tier? Bei einigen Poecilotheria Arten kann man das Geschlecht anhand der Zeichnung und Färbung ganz gut einschätzen. Mittlere bis subadulte Männchen haben eine recht verwaschene Zeichnung. Und das sog. "Folio" (das helle Band auf dem Abdomen) ist bei Weibchen hell, bei Männchen ist ein dukler bis schwarzer Strich darin. Gibt aber auch manchmal "spätentwickler" Weibchen, wo das Folio erst recht spät aufhellt. Aber ich hab noch nie erlebt, dass es nachträglich dunkel geworden ist. Diese "Farbmethode" funktioniert nicht immer und bei allen Arten, aber mit etwas Übung und Vergleich kann man da schon ganz gute Trefferquoten erzielen.

ok, back to english now! =;-)

Originally posted by Valael

On a personal note, I think Pokies are overrated in terms of aggression. I rarely seen my rear up. Hell, my G. Rosea does it more than my P. Regalis does. Granted, IF you get bit, it's going to be a little worse than a G. Rosea bite, but if you simply don't handle it, what's the big deal?

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dito, mine don't rear up often. Normally they try to hide when disturbed. BUT I know some experienced keepers which got bitten by their Poecilotherias. One who never handles his spiders got bitten while he was arrangeing something in the tank. The spider went in it's retreat when he opened the tank, so he feeled save. But suddenly she rushed out and bit him! => Never get used to your spiders and always estimate the unestimated!!
BTW, here are some Poecilotheria bite reports, which doesn't sound "funny": Poecilotheria striata >>click me<<, Poecilotheria regalis >>click me<<, 1 x P. pederseni & 2 x P. regalis >>click me<<

• Gabriel, R. (2002): Notes and Observations Regarding the Bite of Poecilotheria pederseni. British Tarantula Society Journal Vol.17(No.2): 61-64.
• Schmidt, G. (1988): Wie gefährlich sind Vogelspinnenbisse ? Deutsches Ärzteblatt 85 Heft 28/29(2): 1424-1425.
  (u. a. Infos about Poecilotheria fasciata)

And three weeks ago someone told me that his friend got bitten by a Poecilotheria fasciata male and you couldn't talk to him for two hours – during these two hours the doctor on call tried everything to get him back to consciousness. An article about this story is in preparation.

all the best,
Martin

One of my favs...

SALEM ORNAMENTAL Poecilotheria formosa

INDIAN ORNAMENTAL Poecilotheria regalis

Originally posted by Martin H.
Hi,

If I remember right (some I took a while ago) and to my knowledge, all spiders on the collage are females.
sorry to all other guys, I am just a bit lazy at the moment to write in english: Wie groß ist denn Dein Tier? Bei einigen Poecilotheria Arten kann man das Geschlecht anhand der Zeichnung und Färbung ganz gut einschätzen. Mittlere bis subadulte Männchen haben eine recht verwaschene Zeichnung. Und das sog. "Folio" (das helle Band auf dem Abdomen) ist bei Weibchen hell, bei Männchen ist ein dukler bis schwarzer Strich darin. Gibt aber auch manchmal "spätentwickler" Weibchen, wo das Folio erst recht spät aufhellt. Aber ich hab noch nie erlebt, dass es nachträglich dunkel geworden ist. Diese "Farbmethode" funktioniert nicht immer und bei allen Arten, aber mit etwas Übung und Vergleich kann man da schon ganz gute Trefferquoten erzielen.

ok, back to english now! =;-)

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thanks for this great description Martin !!

As you said, back to english...

Marcus

Martin, is this close to what you were trying to say?:

In some adults of Poecilotheria, you can tell sex based on design and brightness of color on the abdomen. Females are usually brighter and more vibrant, and males usually have darker abdomens. Also, you mention that sometimes you see them lighten up with age, but have never seen them get darker.

This interests me quite a bit, but as I am not exactly fluent in German, I wonder if you might elaborate on the "verwaschene" (does that mean pattern/markings?) aspect. I understand what you said about the shades of color, but I am a bit lost in that part.

Bill

Hi Bill,

almost, I wasn't talking about adults but about colour differences in juveniles and subadults. ok, it will be more obvious the older they get. And not only about the abdomen, also about the carapace.

verwaschen = fuzzy.


Here is an elder mail I posted on the ATS_enthusiast mailing list a while ago about this topic:

--8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<-
At 19:18 05.01.2002 you wrote:

Hi Tracey,

ok, I think I have to explain my Pözzi sexing method (perhaps some dealers
will kill me now *fg*).
Be aware: this method is not 100% sure and there might be exceptions. The
larger the specimens are, the more unerring it is. For small slings it
doesn't work. In my experiences it works best with P. ornata and P.
fasciata. P. regalis ist not as easy, but with a little bit of practise
(and larger specimens) it should work also. I doesn't work (for me) with P.
subfusca and I am still not sure, if it works with P. rufilata (haven't had
enough specimens to compare). And a few weeks ago, I have tried it with
about 15 - 20 larger slings of P. smithi, but it didn't work. Perhaps they
where still too small, or it doesn't work with this species, dunno.

The difference between male and female is the colour. Females have more
distinct colour pattern than males. It is easy to see with adult males,
which are very fuzzy and brownish. But already subadult males fade out.
On larger slings and medium sized specimens, take a look at the
Opisthosoma. Most Poecilotheria spp. have a white band longitudinal on the
upside of the Opisthosoma (= this band is also called "folio"). The larger females get, the more clear this
white band is. Males have a greyish to black line inside this white band.
Compare with the photos I just made and uploaded.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATS_enthusiast/files/Poecilotheria fasciata - female and male.jpg
It’s P. fasciata on the photos, because I don’t have medium sized P.
regalis at the moment and I also haven’t had two P. fasciata of the same size.

As small slings, females have also a dark line inside this white band, but
it fades out with every molting.

Also the markings on the Carapace are more clears within females. Males
have a more fuzzy and greyish Carapace. But this is not as obvious, than
the marking on the Opisthosoma

As I told, this method is not 100% sure, there might be exceptions, but
normally with a little bit practise gives a good tendency.


A short note to the sexing by the spermathecae (with a binocular):
There are some species, where the subadult males have a spermathecae like
cuticula structure. Especially with very small specimens, the sexing by the
spermathecae (if there is one or not) can possibly lead to a wrong result,
because these spermathecae like structure of males can be mistaken with the
spermathecae of the females. Starting from a certain age or a certain body
size of the subadult males this structure stops growing and can be
differentiated from the spermathecae of the females by the smaller size and
partly also by a different shape.
It’s safer to wait till the slings are a little bit larger, to sex them by
the spermathecae.
According to V. v. Wirth, there is an article from Mrs. Kotzman 1986, who
made this observation in Selenocosmia stirlingi. Only up to a size larger
than 1,6 cm BL the sex could be determined surely.
Also subadult males of Chilobrachys fimbriatus have a spermathecae like
cuticula structure. Don’t know if Poecilotheria spp. males have or not.
But to my knowledge, all females have a transparent skin inside the molt in
front of the spermathecae (to protect the spermathecae??). Males don’t have
this skin. This transparent skin is a sign which indicates, that you have a
female.

Cheers,
Martin
--8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<-


Like I stated above this method is not 100% sure, it's just a good guess. I have had some cases where I have been totally wrong with this method: There where some specimens with a dark band in the folio (= the folio is the white band on the abdomen). I thought these are males, but in fact they were females and the folio brightened up very late. I can't remember to have had it vice verca, where bright folios got dark. => If you want to get a female, try to buy one with a white or a grey folio, not a dark or black one.

In P. ornata these color differences are obvious very early – IMHO it's the best species for this method.

here is a photo of P. fasciata where you can see the colour differences in the folio:

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And compare the photo of the P. ornata female at the beginning of this thread with this subadult P. ornata male:





all the best,
Martin

www.spiderpix.com
www.dearge.de

Originally posted by Martin H.
According to V. v. Wirth, there is an article from Mrs. Kotzman 1986, who
made this observation in Selenocosmia stirlingi. Only up to a size larger
than 1,6 cm BL the sex could be determined surely.

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Hi Martin,
Excellent information, although I do have some very minor corrections. Mark Kotzman had his paper published in 1988 and I believe the measurement given refers to a single fang measurement of 1.6mm (in comparison to spermethecal cuticular bud measurement). Kotzman only mentions the size in reference to a minium of 20-30% of adult size, very vague. I have a copy of that paper. For more information on Kotzman's results and method, go to http://thedailylink.com/australiantarantulas/species/stirlingi.html

Cheers,
Steve

Hi Steve,

Originally posted by Steve Nunn

Excellent information, although I do have some very minor corrections. Mark Kotzman had his paper published in 1988 and I believe the measurement given refers to a single fang measurement of 1.6mm (in comparison to spermethecal cuticular bud measurement). Kotzman only mentions the size in reference to a minium of 20-30% of adult size, very vague. I have a copy of that paper. For more information on Kotzman's results and method, go to http://thedailylink.com/australiantarantulas/species/stirlingi.html

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Thanks for the corrections!! I have to admit that I haven't read the article of Kotzman myself yet. But will do in the future for sure – at the moment I am in train to photocopy all articles about tarantulas I can put my hands on. Soon I will photocopy (hopefully most of) Volker's literature collection including the Kotzman article.
Thanks also for the link, very intersting and nice looking spider even it's "only" brownish! =

all the best,
Martin

Poecilotheria ornata, subadult male:

ornata...

regalis frontal...