Collected in Peru or Chile ID-Bothriuridae?

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SurfinJB

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Ok I know this is a horrible pic and I will try to get a better one tommorrow but this scorp came in a shipment collected from Peru if not than Chile. We got 10 of them. They are about 1 1/2in dark with almost reddish claws, resembles a fattail. Nice looking but what could they be? Bothriuridae sp.?

 
Eurypterid

Eurypterid

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SurfinJB said:
Bothriuridae sp.?
Click to expand...
Could be. I got one (Bothriurus) last year, and it looks a lot like that in general proportion, though, as you said, that's a horrible pic. One way to tell is to get a look underneath at the sternum. Almost every species in the family has a two-part sternum that is wider than long, and only members of that family have it. Are you selling any?
 
fusion121

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Does it look like this? This is a Bothriuridae (I think) from chile.
 
MattM

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I got 2 of these:



The picture was made by Tom van der Ende ©, but it's from the same shipment.
Still not clear what it is, first thought was Caraboctonus keyserlingi, but the experts are still fighting over it!
 
Ythier

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Yes C.keyserlingi looks like to these Botriurids but you must look the sternum and you will differenciate quickly Bothriuridae / Caraboctonidae (see the Polis' genus key)
 
MattM

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Tom has a dead specimen, so I think it'll be sorted out any time soon!
 
fusion121

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More difficult to pick out the features then I thought, I think this is a Bothriuridae since the sternum seems narrow and the lack on of any tibial spurs. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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fusion121

fusion121

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No I don't either, the sterum is not very easy to make out, but thats the best picture I could get.
 
fusion121

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This is what I think the lay out is:

I think it fits the description of a Bothriuridae
 
Ythier

Ythier

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Hi Oliver,
Now I'm not sure...
The Bothriurids I've recently seen (thanks Alex) and which are probably the same of yours (from the recent Chilean shipments) have a really narrow sternum (almost exactly like on the Fig.3.7 of the Polis : a "slitlike sclerite").
The sternum of your specimen seems to look like the sternum of my C.keyserlingi. And if you look at the genus' key of Scorpionidae in the Polis, he say for Caraboctonus : "sternum wider than long, without distinct furrow, but with a deep pit posteriorly". I highlihted your sternum (let me know if I'm wrong, I don't see it very well), it looks like the previous description, no ?
The only thing that make me in doubt if that in the family key Polis say that the sternum of Bothriurids can also be subpentagonal (at least twice as wide as long) : in that case I don't know...
But I suppose majority of Bothriurids have a sternum reduce to a transverse slitlike sclerite, as on the fig.3.7. And the sternum of your specimen really looks like the one of my Caraboctonus (I have an adult male and a subadult female, the subadult female is about the same size (and really looks like) of this "Chilean black Bothriurid", the adult male is really bigger and don't have the bulbous hands of the Bothriurid).
Hope it helps, and especially hope I don't talk nonsense...
Cheers,
Eric
 

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Ythier

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Hi again,
Here are pics of both species.
Looking to your first photo of your specimen, I think it is a C.keyserlingi (orange pedipalps).
Cheers,
Eric

Pic#1 : Chilean Bothriuridae adult female
Pic#2 : Chilean Bothriuridae adult male
Pic#3 : C.keyserlingi subadult female
Pic#4 : Chilean Bothriuridae adult male
 

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Michael

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Hi

very usefull info Eric. I've just checked my (probably) Caraboctonus keyserlingi also from chile and the sternum is the same as in Oliver's species.
My male hase very bulbous orange/red pedipalps.
So it's very difficult to say but i think the same as Eric: Caraboctonus keyserlingi.

Regards
Michael
 
fusion121

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Hi Eric
That’s very helpful thanks, in "Biology of scorpions" however the Sissom genus key puts Caraboctonus in the Iuridae not the Scorpionidae family, unless yours is a different edition to mine.

I think your ID of Caraboctonus may be right; the description in the key does fit the picture you have highlighted. It is very difficult to tell to what extent the sternum curves round the genital operculum, with no curve I'd be tempted to say it was slitlike but think your picture highlights it well and the extra curve does make it look like a compressed subpentagonal sternum.

I guess it could be Tehuankea moyanoi (a Bothriurid with a subpentagonal sternum) which does occur in Chile, but on the balance of probabilities unlikely to be, and it really looks like the Caraboctonus in your picture.

That’s very annoying; I wanted to breed these guys :mad: :rolleyes: .
 
Tityus

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Here some pictures of my preserved one. Sorry for the very big size but I think how bigger how better when you will ID this.




 
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Tityus

Tityus

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I have this species sold from N. Belker from Germany he import this from Chili.

I hope Alex or Eric can ID this species the are better then me for ID work :worship:

If other pictured needed please ask and I make them :)
 
fusion121

fusion121

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Tityus said:
Here some pictures of my preserved one. Sorry for the very big size but I think how bigger how better when you will ID this.
Click to expand...
Great pictures much better for seeing the sternum then mine, that is definitely a Bothriuridae, you can clearly see that the sternum is extremely long and thin.
 
Tityus

Tityus

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Hi Oliver,

Yes I see Fig 3.7 drawing (C) "The Biology of Scorpions" Gary Polis

Thanks :worship:
 
Nazgul

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Hi,

I seem to have specimens of the same species of which Tom posted the pic. The preserved one looks like a male to me becuase of the bulbous chelae (I noticed a slight difference between male and female). Does C. keyserlingi have a different pectinal tooth count for the sexes? The Bothriurids are having 15 or 16 Teeth in both sexes.

Regards
Alex
 
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