help!i found flat-rock babies..in bad shape!

Yve · Mar 24, 2004

I just looked in on my flat rock and I think there's 5 dead babies and one moving a little..still alive...can I save it! what should I do...there might be more!...did the mom kill them???

PapaSmurf · Mar 24, 2004

The mom prolly did. I think i read somewhere else that flat rocks are bad about killing there babies :?

Yve · Mar 24, 2004

well there are two that are still wriggling around and look intact...I took her tank apart and found maybe 5 others dead....they basically look squashed..so I took the two out put them in a bowl with sand on the bottom, misted it and covered with sara wrap(few holes poked in it)...hopefully they'll still be alive when I get home from work

skinheaddave · Mar 24, 2004

Yve said:
sand on the bottom, misted it and covered with sara wrap(few holes poked in it)...hopefully they'll still be alive when I get home from work

Are they first or second instar? If they are first then the prognosis is pretty dim. It means they fell off the mother and/or were knocked off. There is some evidence that females are practicing a sort of genetic control and that they eat/abandon less fit offspring. If they are second instar then there is a lot more hope.

Either way, get them off the sand ASAP. Sand is one of the most drying substrates there is and at this point that can spell death. If they are first instar and are on sand, they will almost certainly be dead when you get home. Regardless, if they aren't dead, put them on moist (not soaking) paper towel when you get home. If they are first instar you want to keep the paper towel moist until they moult. Once they have moulted or if they are already second instar then you want to keep them on the moist paper towel for a couple days but then you can let it dry out and put them in with their primary substrate being slate. Active second instars can be given pinheads. Sluggish second instars should be given crushed pinheads.

Cheers,
Dave

Yve · Mar 24, 2004

thanks alot Dave

I was hoping for a reply from you....I bought this flat rock from Rob at the last expo....you sexed her for me...anyhow...I got the 2 babies on damp paper towel thanks to my husband who gets home about 4 hours after I go to work...one is very sluggish and seems to be lying on its side...I think it might be toast...the other has its little pincers up and moved around a bit when I touched it....I have no idea whether its first or second instar...this morning was the first time I saw them...perhaps they were under the slate before this....but they weren't on the mothers back at all because I give her a look everyday. I did feed her a crik yesterday though

maybe that is what caused the scorplings thier demise...I don't know...I didn't see the crik in there today and I lifted the slate up and looked everythin over thouroughly...I'll post a pic of the remaining two for you...
Yve

Yve · Mar 24, 2004

skinheaddave · Mar 24, 2004

Yve,

Ah, so that was you. I had drawn that conclusion, but to tell the truth I probably remember the scorpion better than you -- yeah, I'm a nerd.

I have the other female Rob brought that day so I will keep an eye on it.

First instar -- and possibly not quite developed based on the arching. The metasoma does come over the top, though, so it can't be that premature. Everything you say sounds to me like an abortion. Have you checked around for aborted eggs? They look like little clumps of ... well tiny eggs.

Anyhow, the raising of first instar is very difficult -- probably impossible if they are premies. What you want to do is keep them from drying out, keep them warm and just wait. They will eventually moult or die. The other thing you can try is to reintroduce them to the mother's back, but from what you've said I suspect this wouldn't result in much. If they couldn't/weren't allowed to make it to her back the first time, they probably won't be accepted now.

Cheers,
Dave

Yve · Mar 24, 2004

thanks Dave, the pic on sand is the scorp that seems troubled. that was before I moved it, the second pic is of the other scorp that seems to be in better shape....the arch in the one is more than the other.....but they are both sluggish...but as you said the metasoma is coming up and even the pincers are moving around on the one...anyhow...I'll keep them damp and warm and see what happens..btw I didn't find any little eggs in the tank....
anyhow I wish you luck with your female

...hopefully some scorp bambinos for you in the near future!

Yve · Mar 26, 2004

oh my! I'm on an emotional rollercoaster!..yesterday I was certain the babies were dead but just left them in the moist towel....today they're moving around a little more...I put one dead cricket infront of each one and it looks like one is trying to eat it....the crik is almost as big as the scorpling but that is the smallest one I could find. its little pincers are flailing and all!..they're not walking around or anything...just wriggling...i wonder if thats typical for such a young one..

skinheaddave · Mar 26, 2004

Yve,

It may be trying to cuddle up for moisture rather than eat it. Since they look to be first instar, they are not eating anything yet. Wait until they moult for the first time -- should be within two weeks for this species. They will have some colour at this point and will have thinned out a bit.

Cheers,
Dave

chau0046 · Mar 26, 2004

Scorpions at first instar will feed of its own fat ( er whatever the term is) untill second instar. as soon as its exo hardens afetr first moult is the appropriot time to offer food. if there reall smaller than the crickets you have in hand , i suggest demembering most of its appendiges and feed it that way.

Good luck,
Mat

Yve · Mar 26, 2004

another ?

....since they seem to be doing better now...how warm should I keep 1st instars and how moist should the papertowel be? I have them in a small bowl sitting on a few layers of pt and I kinda folded it over to form a ceiling...and saran wrap loosley over top...temp is around 80 degrees

skinheaddave · Mar 27, 2004

Temperature will affect development rates, but anything in the high 70s to low 80s should be fine. As for the paper towels, I would suggest not wet enough that you can really squeeze water out -- but quite close to that threshold. Since you are providing such high humidity, I would suggest swapping out the paper towel every day or two to prevent fungal growth etc. I should point out that the maintenance of abandoned first instars is far from an established science -- most of them don't get this far in the first place. In short, if they seem to be doing well in the current conditions then keep them that way. If that differs from what I am suggesting then please tell me how.

Cheers,
Dave

Yve · Mar 27, 2004

geez...these guys are squirming even more today....almost walking around a bit...the moisture level is just as you recommend Dave..i add some in the morning and evening to keep it that way...I check on them quite often

this is so exciting...and unexpected...I actually have hope for the little guys...

Immortal_sin · Mar 27, 2004

wow...what a story! I'm following this thread with my fingers crossed for you!
I hope they make it.

Yve · Apr 5, 2004

well one seems to be doing ok and its been 2 weeks now..the other one died a couple of days ago...it seemed a bit deformed or maybe not fully formed...
it had a hard time staying upright and its pincers were always bent to one side...anyhow here is a pic of the one thats left....I haven't changed the conditions. At this point I'm hoping it will molt soon..it seems a bit less active today then it has been the past week.

Yve · Apr 5, 2004

thought i'd post a pic of the female that produced...

Scorpie · Apr 9, 2004

so was he alright in the end?
what instar is he at now if he is alive?

Yve · Apr 9, 2004

unfortunately i think the other is dying too...it is barely moving, even when i touch it there is hardly a response. What a bummer

Tim R. · Apr 9, 2004

Sorry Yve, sure home it makes it somehow.

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