Messin with Genes.

KoRn · Dec 28, 2003

dude, could u breed any Avic. ( fill in ) with a different Avic.?

like a Versi, with a Avic, and u know. all those different ones.
I wonder if these genes are dominant or co-dom? could make some badd ass breeding projects man.
this is how alot of BP morphs are formed, even tho there has only been one BP morph created in captivity ( hail the Snow Ball )

Malhavoc's · Dec 28, 2003

Cross breeding is very possible and has been done but is not been smiled upon, Naturaly any and all offs[pring that survive such a breeding are sterile but noone wants Mudbloods to dirty clean bloodlines so its not really favoured, several mutations have been recored documented and bred I suggest a search on thsi forum. If you are going to attempt such a thing I salute your dive into the unknown just Make sure none of the slings escape or are sold. I plane on startign a few selective breedings just need the stock first.. image A g rosea without the psyco possiblity, the size of a blondi and as red as a rose..

whoami? · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by Malhavoc's
Cross breeding is very possible and has been done but is not been smiled upon, Naturaly any and all offs[pring that survive such a breeding are sterile but noone wants Mudbloods to dirty clean bloodlines so its not really favoured, several mutations have been recored documented and bred I suggest a search on thsi forum. If you are going to attempt such a thing I salute your dive into the unknown just Make sure none of the slings escape or are sold. I plane on startign a few selective breedings just need the stock first.. image A g rosea without the psyco possiblity, the size of a blondi and as red as a rose..

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I don't even see a problem with selling the mixed tarantulas. The way I see it, if the offspring can reproduce, then they both should have been classified as the same species to begin with. And I really have no moral qualms about breeding two members or the same species, regardless of where they came from or what they look like, as long as I inform the buyer of what he's purchasing. If he wants to buy it, fine. If he wants to use it for his own breeding project, that's none of my businesss.

Joe · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by whoami?
The way I see it, if the offspring can reproduce, then they both should have been classified as the same species to begin with.

I'm not sure about tarantulas, but snakes of different species and even genera can be crossbred AND have fertile offspring.

Navaros · Dec 29, 2003

Hybrids would not be a problem IMO as long as people know what they are buying!!! Just make sure you tell them what they are getting, but then there is the problem of those people breeding them and passing them off as another species eventually screwing the species in captivity.

I hate hybrids!

Tescos · Dec 29, 2003

First why would you want to cross breed tarantulas? Arn´t they good enough as they are?
All the problems there are in tarantula taxonomy and you want to make matters worse by cross breeding?

The way I see it, if the offspring can reproduce, then they both should have been classified as the same species to begin with.

So by that reckoning if I cross breed a wolf with a chow-wo-a (soz bad spelling I know) and they produce fertile offspring then a wolf and a chow-wo-a are the same species?:?

I know that its quite probable that cross breeding does happen in the wild but why on earth should we want to do it in regard to tarantulas?

I´m off now to mate a T.blondi with a C.elegans if I get any offspring I sell them for really high prices,but don´t worry as I will let you know they are hybrids!

MizM · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by Tescos
So by that reckoning if I cross breed a wolf with a chow-wo-a (soz bad spelling I know) and they produce fertile offspring then a wolf and a chow-wo-a are the same species?:?

Chihuahua. That's a tough one... I wouldn't be able to spell it if I didn't live so close to Mexico!!!

But anyway, a wolf and a Chihuahua actually CAN breed and produce fertile offspring. Wolf hybrids are very popular in my neck of the woods and people are crossing them with German Shephards, Rotts, EVERYTHING!! Canines seem to be able to breed with any old canine!!=D

Tescos · Dec 29, 2003

@MizM

Hang on here,I NEVER said that you couldn´t breed these two dogs together !What I ment by that was -because you can breed them doesn´t make them the same species does it ,or does it ?

Oh and cheers for the spelling check.I don´t like Chowhatsime thingimagigs ,hence I can´t spell them either!=D

MizM · Dec 29, 2003

I'm sorry, I MIZunderstood!=D

I don't like Chihuahuas either, they are viscious little things! My neighbor's tried to eat my cat! I'd MUCH prefer the wolf!

Phillip · Dec 29, 2003

There are many snake hybrids that have healthy fertile babies on the market. They are also a good example of what is wrong with the concept of hybridizing. Over the years there have been quite a few misrepresented snakes that made it into the unsuspecting hobbiests hands and regardless of how up front and honest the originator of the hybrid is with the animals there is no way to make Joe Blow represent them as what they are when they have changed hands a dozen times after multiple generations.

The problem is that unless the one creating the cross never lets them out of his hands there is no way to know that they will always be called what they actually are. This in turn can pollute the breeding projects of folks that are attempting to keep lines pure.

Phil

whoami? · Dec 29, 2003

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't species imply the potential to be interbred? If that's an inherent part of the definition, then I would assume that if two animals of different species can interbreed, then they were just misclassified as different species to begin with, and should have been classified as the same species.

Deliverme314 · Dec 29, 2003

I see no issue with it as long as you are honest and tell the buyer's exactly what they are getting. I am sure that alot of "true" species today are the result of natural cross breeding....

Aragorn · Dec 29, 2003

I like to keep the gene line clean and pure without any interbreeding between closed species incase they ever become extinct in the wild.

"Today, I see the same fear in your eyes that will take the heart of me!"

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/knotsripol@sbcglobal.net

NEMESIS_112 · Dec 29, 2003

I dont think selling cross-bred T's is a good idea. even if they are in the same genus. It would just spread all over the place and no one would know what they are getting.

Nemesis_112 @Petstore:

Nemesis_112 "so what is it that im purchasing a Avic. Avic. or a Avic Versi?"
Petstore " I dont know son pick one"

why would someone want to change the beautiful colors of the versicolor. Man them versi are nice!!!!!! would hate to see the versi be all deformed.
Do i make sense?

Nemesis_112

NEMESIS_112 · Dec 29, 2003

Why would anyone want to change these colors? Look how nice antic looks!

NEMESIS_112 · Dec 29, 2003

just one more of this lil guy!

Mister Internet · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by Tescos
@MizM

Hang on here,I NEVER said that you couldn´t breed these two dogs together !What I ment by that was -because you can breed them doesn´t make them the same species does it ,or does it ?

Technically, ALL domestic dog breeds from Jack Russell to Great Dane are Canis familiaris, with wolves and other members of the dog family being different species within Canis. It's hard to believe, but pretty much any domestic dog breeds can interbreed and produce fertile offspring, it's just a matter of mechanics that prohibits it in most cases, if you catch my drift.

Phillip · Dec 29, 2003

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't species imply the potential to be interbred? If that's an inherent part of the definition, then I would assume that if two animals of different species can interbreed, then they were just misclassified as different species to begin with, and should have been classified as the same species.

While it seems that some arachnid taxonomists seem to buy into this theory that would make it the 1st type of animal in which this was a defining factor. The different species of snakes and other animals that have produced fertile hybrid offspring are not the same species mislabled as you put it. An example of this would be the corn/ milksnake crosses. Both species have numerous characteristics that separate them down to different sex organs and differing composition of the saliva as well as scalation, location, overall body shape and structure along with many other factors. The taxonomy of these species is not in question nor has it been for a long time where Tarantula taxonomy is still comparatively in its infancy.

Phil

Steve Nunn · Dec 29, 2003

Originally posted by Phillip
While it seems that some arachnid taxonomists seem to buy into this theory that would make it the 1st type of animal in which this was a defining factor. The different species of snakes and other animals that have produced fertile hybrid offspring are not the same species mislabled as you put it. An example of this would be the corn/ milksnake crosses. Both species have numerous characteristics that separate them down to different sex organs and differing composition of the saliva as well as scalation, location, overall body shape and structure along with many other factors.

Hi Phil,
This is true but it still doesn't alter the fact that these species could not possibly cross in the wild. It took a lot of human intervention to make this cross happen and in reality this doesn't affect the definition of a species. Remember that in the above situation human intervention eliminated the isolated reproductive mechanism.

Whoami hit the nail on the head, if it can produce fertile offspring, then by definition they are one and the same species (unless we humans have done our best to mess with it). You will not see fertile crosses in theraphosids simply because we haven't figured out yet how to eliminate the isolated reproductive mechanism.

Cheers,
Steve

rorika · Dec 29, 2003

i've read that when u crossbreed the offspring u get won't be as beautifully coloured like the original ones..

Messin with Genes.

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