Need your opinion on my P. irminia triplets, and some other relavent stuff

Ok, so this is in part my shameless "Sex my spidars pls!11" thread, but I have some followup questions and observations... I promise!

Ok, so here are some vent shots of my 5th instar, ~2.5 (probably a little less) P. irminia. I'm afraid for now the vent shots are all I have to go on. I did try and look at their last molt. The results were inconclusive, as I only have one of those pocket microscope 8x20mm (whatever that means) and it's very hard to stretch out the skin without ripping it, keeping your hand steady, and having a flashlight illuminating the whole mess! I didn't see anything, which either means they're all male or I'm incompetent. I'm guessing/hoping it's the latter... anyway...

Larry


Curly


And Moe


They are all siblings, and have molted within days/hours of each other.
Now you may notice that they have male names. I do believe they are male until proven female (It's always better to be pleasantly suprised!). Anyway, If I had to guess, I'd guess that Larry and Curly indeed being male, and Moe to be maybe female. When I had them in the tiny vial and examined them by eye, I did notice moe having a slightly different ventral "look" than the other two, no matter where the light source was. It seemed wider, and didn't have a very pronounced "dot" like the other two. But that said, despite looking different from the other two, Moe still looked kinda male to me.... which brings me to my question!

Will the ventral furrow area look the same for all spiders of the same sex, age (instar, I guess), and species? Like if I look at a female ventral shot for a 5th instar P. irminia, will all 5th instar females look exactly the same? I guess what I'm trying to determine is that would seeing a difference in the furrow area in two different spiders from the same sac and same instar be enough to say that they are not the same sex?

I hope this makes sense. If not.... then....

Sex my spidars pls?

Anyone?
A guess is fine too!

curly definitely has a more pronounced 'dot' and larry might too but the reflection makes it hard to see...the width between second set of booklungs(correct me if I am wrong and these arent the lungs) seems very similar in all three but moe has a slightly more rounded abdomen than the other pics so maybe ?? just a guess I would say moe is prob a girl......

1.Female
2. Male
3. Female

BUT it's just an informative guess because of said dot on the second. I'm really hoping I'm right. I might have 2-3 females...

ZergFront said:

1.Female
2. Male
3. Female

BUT it's just an informative guess because of said dot on the second. I'm really hoping I'm right. I might have 2-3 females...

Click to expand...

I hope you're right too. I'm hoping for at least 1 female to keep, and maybe a couple of males (half sacs:} ) waiting in the wings!
How old are yours? Mine are, as I've said, 5th instar and are now just beginning to turn black and show orange on the legs! I'm hoping they'll reach adult colors by next molt.

Anymore guesses are welcome!

I'd bet on the first one being a female.

ZergFront said:

1.Female
2. Male
3. Female

BUT it's just an informative guess because of said dot on the second. I'm really hoping I'm right. I might have 2-3 females...

Click to expand...

The booklungs scream at me that you are correct (I am a bit of a noob though).

i see
1.female
2.male
3.female

but im not that good.

1. female
2. male
3. ??

Hobo said:

I hope you're right too. I'm hoping for at least 1 female to keep, and maybe a couple of males (half sacs:} ) waiting in the wings!
How old are yours? Mine are, as I've said, 5th instar and are now just beginning to turn black and show orange on the legs! I'm hoping they'll reach adult colors by next molt.

Anymore guesses are welcome!

Click to expand...

Actually same stage as yours. I think they're 1 1/2" but I've never actually measured them.

Have you tried shining a light under the pedipalps? Mine have just started showing the iridescent blue-green under them with light. I was a moth looking at a bright flame when I saw that.

ZergFront said:

Have you tried shining a light under the pedipalps? Mine have just started showing the iridescent blue-green under them with light. I was a moth looking at a bright flame when I saw that.

Click to expand...

I have. It's beautiful. It even shows up in some photos. Here's one where you can see quite a bit of it.


BTW, thanks for the guesses guys. Guess I'll have to wait a bit longer to know for sure.

Hey, just thought I'd update.

They've all molted a while back, Larry and Curly deposited their molts outside their tube webs. They are both defininely male.
Moe, chewed it up after her first meal and deposited it along with her bolus, so I didn't get to sex her that way (nyuk nyuk!).... though I think it's pretty clear what she is compared to her brothers. I can confirm her ventral looks very different and much more female than the others off camera too (sometimes camera flashes, lighting, etc. can sway you one way or the other).

Here are their vent shots now, at 6th instar. I think they pretty much speak for themselves, and I suppose I answered my own initial question if I can molt confirm her at a later date.

Larry:


Curly:


Moe(esha?):


Looks like my initial guess was right!
Thanks for the help guys!

Yeah, looks like the ventral area is a bit more "open." Maybe female? (guessing I have 2 male P.irminia slings out of 5 at least...all well. 50/50 sounds fun..)

Mine eats their molts every time. Checked my freshly molted P.cambridgei last night..yup, he got his already. :wall:

ZergFront said:

Yeah, looks like the ventral area is a bit more "open." Maybe female? (guessing I have 2 male P.irminia slings out of 5 at least...all well. 50/50 sounds fun..)

Mine eats their molts every time. Checked my freshly molted P.cambridgei last night..yup, he got his already. :wall:

Click to expand...

Couldn't that be a sign that they are dehydrated after the molt? That is what I have read, that a tarantula will chew up the exoskeleton to regain some liquids.
:?

A little late on this one, Hobo...but i have 2, that are a molt or 2 ahead of yours, they look like girls(they really do now,after seeing that obvious male you have)....and yours, i`d say...

1.female

2.male

3.female

Hope we are all right!.....be nice to have a couple big black and orange ladies in the house!

I'd say your guess was right Hobo, first two male, third female. they are still kind of small though.

Well, most likely the final update to my thread.
Moesha did, infact, molt female

So I was right, and have apparently answered my own question, with just this example at least. While it's interesting that you can ventrally sex them at a very small size, I don't think I would have been able to do it accurately if I didn't have her brothers to compare her too.

Since I have two males, I may get a chance to try this again!