Artificial Insemination

Windycity · Dec 21, 2003

This might seem like a wacky idea at first blush but is anyone aware of any attempts or research done on the artificial insemination of tarantulas – especially rare or difficult species? The successful domestic breeding of tarantulas is still a relatively new phenomena and, from the many posts and breeding reports found on various hobby sites, continues to be fueled primarily with a mix of luck, perseverance and expendable male subjects.

With the right collection equipment, you would think it might be an achievable procedure - obtain some micro tip collection swabs from a medical or lab supply house for instance, wait for a sperm web (this assumes you have a male and female ready to mate), collect a bead or swipe of sperm with your collection swab, pick up your female with a ventral grip and make a careful swipe into her epigrastric fold and then go mix a double Jack and coke to calm the nerves depending on the species you are working with.

So, assuming it works, you have a guaranteed insert and your male lives to die another day.

What do you think – possible or impossible?<<collection swab>>

chuck · Dec 21, 2003

males of every walk of life are becoming less and less important. why deprive a male T of his duty, i know i dont want human females to go this route as their main way of reproduction ;P

i like it, sounds good in theory, but then again, so did communism.

Dragoon · Dec 21, 2003

Awww, don't worry, human males will NEVER be replaced.
We love you guys!

How else will we get our jars opened...
:}
D.

greensleeves · Dec 21, 2003

It does have potential. If there was a way to inexpensively freeze male T sperm for transport, one male could successfully, and safely, fertilize several females using this method. I think zoos do it already with some of their rarer animals.

I don't think this necessarily would be the way to go with all types of Ts, but might be good, as Windycity said, for rarer specimens that are just getting established in the hobby and where viable males are just too valuable to be allowed to be eaten the first time they are put to stud.

The T owner doing the inseminating would have to be pretty steady handed - if you stick your implement in too far you could fatally injure your female. You'd need to know optimal spermathecae depth... are we getting a little personal here? =D

Greensleeves

MPetti2.0 · Dec 21, 2003

Artificial Insemination...

This is a subject that has been brought up before. It obviously has great potential, not to mention the better control/management of genetics. However there are a few issues with the concept of artificial insemination for tarantulas, and any aminal for that matter. Lets take humans for example, ones that have had thier mother artificially inseminated to create them. A recent study was done on these individuals nation-wide. A disturbing amount of these individials had either disoders of some kind, and/or disease. Scientists are now finding that it's just not gettting the sperm to egg, but also HOW the sperm gets to the egg. In other words the inroduction method plays large role in determining the health, and normal development that was previously unknown to science. So untill we can find a successful and safe way to artificial inseminate, there's no garuntee that you would get simmilar results with tarantulas. Great concept, unfourtunatly we just don't know enough about it.

Peace, Matt.

greensleeves · Dec 21, 2003

Re: Artificial Insemination...

Originally posted by MPetti2.0
Lets take humans for example, ones that have had thier mother artificially inseminated to create them. A recent study was done on these individuals nation-wide. A disturbing amount of these individials had either disoders of some kind, and/or disease. Scientists are now finding that it's just not gettting the sperm to egg, but also HOW the sperm gets to the egg.

Wow, that's kind of creepy, actually.

Although... playing the Devil's advocate here... since tarantulas are somewhat simpler life forms than we are, wouldn't it be possible that there was less to mess up in terms of sperm delivery?

Just a thought.

Greensleeves

MPetti2.0 · Dec 21, 2003

Re: Artificial Insemination...

Originally posted by greensleeves
Wow, that's kind of creepy, actually.

Although... playing the Devil's advocate here... since tarantulas are somewhat simpler life forms than we are, wouldn't it be possible that there was less to mess up in terms of sperm delivery?

Just a thought.

Greensleeves

Well that being the case, you probably right. It would PROBABLY be easier to do this with lower life forms. But my point was that if the method of introduction is wrong, they're finding that the sperm won't properly pass on information. (hence deformities and so on) So in other words, there is a VERY good chance that you will end up with alot of defective slings. Also there's (as you brought up) the risk of damaging the mother during the whole thing...And how would you get the female to agree to such a thing?! Clearly not natural at all, and surly stressful as hell for it. I mean I've seen females get pissed off mating with a REAL male. Can u imagine what trying to do that with a fake one would be like?! This is one field of research I leave to the Pros. But at the rate Science/technology move I wouldn't be suprised to see this in common practice in the future. That is after it's safe, and the kinks are worked out. This also has great applications in the future, after we wipe out thier natural habitats and they only exist in captivity. Anyway, nuff rambling...

Peace, Matt.

chuck · Dec 21, 2003

they also freeze bull's sperm and make a lot of money doing it, auctioning it off

Buspirone · Dec 21, 2003

I seem to recall reading somewhere about scientists(or someone) stunning female tarantulas with electrical shock or some other method and then letting the male do his thing on her while semi-incapacitated....kinda like using a roofie. I don't recall if it was just a proposal or if anyone was actually doing it. Maybe some else recalls seeing it and can correct/inform me here?

MPetti2.0 · Dec 21, 2003

Originally posted by Buspirone
I seem to recall reading somewhere about scientists(or someone) stunning female tarantulas with electrical shock or some other method and then letting the male do his thing on her while semi-incapacitated....kinda like using a roofie. I don't recall if it was just a proposal or if anyone was actually doing it. Maybe some else recalls seeing it and can correct/inform me here?

I think you got your information mixed up man. The procedure you're describing is used for venom collection. As far as I know this subject hasn't been taken seriously, or attempted. (For taratula's anyway) And that wouldn't fall under A.I., that would be date rape...

Peace, Matt. ;P

arcane · Dec 21, 2003

I'm a newbie to this, never bred a T in my life.. but I thought about this idea too.

Granted few people are willing to risk this, but seems like a little time in the fridge might make the female easier for the male to handle.... or easier for someone to artificially inseminate.

Windycity · Dec 21, 2003

Originally posted by arcane
I'm a newbie to this, never bred a T in my life.. but I thought about this idea too.

Granted few people are willing to risk this, but seems like a little time in the fridge might make the female easier for the male to handle.... or easier for someone to artificially inseminate.

I don’t think getting the proper grip on the female would be the road block. Slings from many of the more aggressive species (most Heteroscodra, Pterinochilus, and Haplopelma’s) are currently fairly affordable and readily available from active dealers any way. Brachy’s and Megaphobema’s might be good candidates for AI.

For those or you who have seen sperm webs (I haven’t had T’s long enough to have had a mature male yet), are there visible droplets of sperm on the web which could be collected?

conipto · Dec 21, 2003

YEs, but they don't stay visible for long. Often it seems they are there long enough to get siphoned, then the web is destroyed. Assuming you were able to get the sperm in an appliable way, there is still no guarantee that it's presence would trigger production of eggs in the female though.. there just hasn't been enough, if any, research done on it.

Bill

Andrew vV · Dec 22, 2003

Remember that male emboli and female spermathecae are unique to genera, and/or species within a genus. Thats ONE reason why it would be pretty hard to mate two dissimilar species. Just like a lock and key......Im not sure if "simply" collecting a males sperm and inserting it at the epigastric furrow is enough.
I can imagine the number of "interesting" hybrids we would have polluting the hobby if this were possible though!!

Aragorn · Dec 22, 2003

Originally posted by Windycity
This might seem like a wacky idea at first blush but is anyone aware of any attempts or research done on the artificial insemination of tarantulas – especially rare or difficult species? The successful domestic breeding of tarantulas is still a relatively new phenomena and, from the many posts and breeding reports found on various hobby sites, continues to be fueled primarily with a mix of luck, perseverance and expendable male subjects.

With the right collection equipment, you would think it might be an achievable procedure - obtain some micro tip collection swabs from a medical or lab supply house for instance, wait for a sperm web (this assumes you have a male and female ready to mate), collect a bead or swipe of sperm with your collection swab, pick up your female with a ventral grip and make a careful swipe into her epigrastric fold and then go mix a double Jack and coke to calm the nerves depending on the species you are working with.

So, assuming it works, you have a guaranteed insert and your male lives to die another day.

What do you think – possible or impossible?<<collection swab>>

Actually, if you us an eye dropper to suck up the sperm would be better than swap and there are other equipment you can use that is like it, but expensive.

LPacker79 · Dec 22, 2003

Having spent much of my life on a horse farm (Arabians), I'm quite familiar with artificial insemination and the benefits; no need to ship the horse, safety for both mare and stallion, the ability to freeze semen and use it after the stallion has passed, shipping it overseas, etc. I also think it would be cost prohibitive. In the horse world there is usually a fee charged by the stallion owner....collection fees, insemination fees, handling fees, a deposit for the equitainer (the blue plastic shipping container, usually refundable), and that's on top of the stud fee itself which usually runs between $500 and $7,000.

I don't know of any T's that are selling for thousands of dollars, and since the use of the male is usually done in a 50/50 arrangement I don't see how it is possible. It's cost prohibitive.

Not to mention the time spent deciding what temperatures yield the best motility or what kind of extender works best for each male! =D

skinheaddave · Feb 6, 2004

Originally posted by conipto
there is still no guarantee that it's presence would trigger production of eggs in the female though..

This is a huge issue. If mating is needed to stimulate egg production then methods of transfer, cost etc. don't even enter into the picture.

Cheers,
Dave

Artificial Insemination

Windycity

Arachnosquire

chuck

Arachnodemon

Dragoon

ArachnoGoon

greensleeves

Arachnobaron

MPetti2.0

Arachnopeon

greensleeves

Arachnobaron

MPetti2.0

Arachnopeon

chuck

Arachnodemon

Buspirone

Arachnoprince

MPetti2.0

Arachnopeon

arcane

Arachnosquire

Windycity

Arachnosquire

conipto

ArachnoPrincess

Andrew vV

Arachnobaron

Aragorn

Arachnobaron

LPacker79

ArachnoSpaz

skinheaddave

SkorpionSkin